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Fiddler
06-24-2010, 03:07 PM
I'd love to hear how CM works with older kids--I find myself drifting closer to the Classical model as Jazz (currently 12) gets older.

callie
06-30-2010, 08:51 AM
Me too. My 12 yr old is wanting to try Charlotte Mason this year, but I am not sure yet. Can't wait to read everyone's replies.

elkhollow
07-04-2010, 10:59 AM
I do not have older children but as I understand it, the Charlotte Mason method is not "classical," though WTM's S.W.Bauer believes the two are easily compatible. Miss Mason was classically trained herself and there are similarities between her approach and the classical. I often think of CM as classical myself because the WTM borrowed so heavily from CM that the lines often seem blurred, but they use her methods in a way that I'm not sure she intended. There are some definite differences, which you can read about here:
http://simplycharlottemason.com/2009/06/17/charlotte-mason-method-vs-classical-approach/

Have you looked at the recommended booklist and schedule at www.amblesideonline.org for ideas? They have every grade through eleventh covered.

crazymama
07-16-2010, 10:04 AM
There are a few sites that I like that are CM. The first is www.simplycharlottemason.com. This one is my favorite because of the book finder!! Even those of us who aren't really CM, can find living books to go with our studies using it. The other two are www.amblesideonline.com and www.charlottemasonhelp.com.

Ok.. now here is my problem with CM, it's very christian in nature! Drives me insane! There is a yahoo group (secularCM), that helps to avoid the religiousness that spills out of most CM curriculums, so it's worth joining if you are intereseted in going that route.

Fiddler
07-16-2010, 10:34 AM
Sommer, I love Secular CM (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SecularCM/)--I've been a member since the very beginning of the group. I'd rate it one of my top three most helpful email lists, along with Homeschooling Creatively (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolingcreatively/) and WTMSecular (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WellTrainedMindSecular/). What I would love to see is CM done secularly for high school. I'm not an Ambleside fan. I love Harmony Art Mom (http://harmonyartmom.blogspot.com/) (Barb), but she is decidedly not secular. What I may end up doing is just secularizing what she does, though we are trying a Sonlight core this year (Core 5, secularized), so continuing with those may be the direction we take after this if all goes well.

Fiddler
07-16-2010, 10:36 AM
Forgot to mention that a friend started the Secular Charlotte Mason website, which has lots of helpful links. Gina's son is three years older than my older son, so I'll probably keep an eye on what he's up to, LOL. Though I have to tweak for my right-brained learners, which adds another interesting aspect to the mix. :)

crazymama
07-16-2010, 12:22 PM
Forgot to mention that a friend started the Secular Charlotte Mason website, which has lots of helpful links. Gina's son is three years older than my older son, so I'll probably keep an eye on what he's up to, LOL. Though I have to tweak for my right-brained learners, which adds another interesting aspect to the mix. :)

So what's the site??

I'm finding myself going away from curriculum, going back to where we started before I knew of all these curriculums and methods.. back to living books and hands on fun, and following our hearts. CM is the closest I seem to be able to get to my way of thinking.. sigh. I am thinking of writing a curriculum of FUN living books.. not the out of date ones that seem to be so popular on the main CM sites (esp ambleside).

Fiddler
07-16-2010, 03:44 PM
Whoops, got distracted and forgot to go back and link to the name. Sorry about that! Secular Charlotte Mason (http://www.secularcm.com/)

ColourfulThreads
07-17-2010, 01:48 AM
Hi Christina,

You mention not being an Ambleside fan. Is that because of the religious content in the curriculum, or for other reasons?

I'm interested because I use AO but heavily modify it every year. I've toyed with the idea of trying to put together a secular AO version, but haven't found much interest. Most secular homeschoolers seem to be like myself, and love to tweak whatever they use.

Just wondering,
Jennifer

Fiddler
07-17-2010, 10:40 AM
It's pretty much everything except literature on the AO site that doesn't resonate with me. And even then, I find the "free reading" choices excellent, but I don't choose my kids' free reading books for them. I'll suggest them, have them on hand, etc., but I want "free reading" to be truly their choice (with my eagle eye on content to make sure it's appropriate--tough these days with a 12 y.o. avid bookworm who likes to pick from the adults' fiction section of the library).

What I like about CM is composer, artist, and nature studies, plus the emphasis on living books. So perhaps I am more CM for "extracurricular" subjects than I am for core subjects. Though I like copywork and narration, too, and those translate well into LA, history, etc.

Hmm, much to ponder.

dandjsmama
08-30-2010, 12:40 AM
Jennifer and Christina,

I have used AO for years and have also tweaked it a lot, but have loved the challenging level of material they use. I cut out all the religious stuff. For years we did the copywork every day and dictation. I have even used the copywork idea in other areas like Geography. I have my younger kids use a light table to trace the outlines of the individual states and then copy the name of the state and capitol. They do the same one each day for 4 days and then on the fifth day they do a "dictation" where they try to draw it and write the state and capitol from memory. Anyway, now, we use History at Our House for history, so I have dropped a lot of the AO history reading because it is just too much repetition of material. And, because we have made history such a major part of our curriculum now, we have moved some of the AO books around so that they match up with the time period we are studying. I still believe though that the CM techniques of narration and dictation, have value, and the literature lists from AO are good too. We also use the Geography stuff. Science is week in my opinion, but I do like the Natural History. I just don't think it's enough. Ok, I think I'm rambling. Anyway, my 17 yo just finished. And did AO years 3 to 6. After that we did our own thing with her. She tested in the highest level she could in her English entrance exam at community college. I know at least some of it was due to the challenging material she read/learned from in AO.


Wendy

alexdk
02-10-2011, 09:25 PM
It's pretty much everything except literature on the AO site that doesn't resonate with me. And even then, I find the "free reading" choices excellent, but I don't choose my kids' free reading books for them. I'll suggest them, have them on hand, etc., but I want "free reading" to be truly their choice (with my eagle eye on content to make sure it's appropriate--tough these days with a 12 y.o. avid bookworm who likes to pick from the adults' fiction section of the library).

What I like about CM is composer, artist, and nature studies, plus the emphasis on living books. So perhaps I am more CM for "extracurricular" subjects than I am for core subjects. Though I like copywork and narration, too, and those translate well into LA, history, etc.

Hmm, much to ponder.


That sounds like us, I like CM for the Nature Study, Art & Music Appreciation and of course the living books. We have used narration too, and still do.

I am pondering what to do with my youngest for next year (6 yr old) and my oldest too!
I don't choose their free reading either, but I monitor their choices as well.

Stella M
02-11-2011, 12:57 AM
Coming in a bit late on this one.

I use CM with my eldest daughter (13). The only real change as she's gotten older is that her narrations are written rather than given orally. And now she's older, there's less of the hanging out in nature stuff :(

I don't use Ambleside; whilst I see a value in classic books and literature, I don't think you have to stay in the 19th C to h/s in a CM way, and I feel some of their book selections are not very forward looking. I like checking in there b/c their book lists are a good template for me though.

I love CM. I find that it's an approach that can easily increase in rigour as a child gets older by using increasingly complex books or other resources, subjects, and narrations.

My daughter still works in a CM way too - lessons in the morning, afternoons for life and other skills, paid work etc. A focus on habit has paid off in her case - she requires very little external motivation. A lovely, gentle method for a lovely, gentle girl.

Eta: I do find it tricky to do CM with the youngest now that dd is pretty busy with her studies. We can't really take off for 6hrs in nature and leave her to it! I use elements of it with him - narration, short lessons, art/music study.

Imo the CM method is easy to secularize even though her writings are Christian.

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
02-11-2011, 05:07 PM
We use AO Year 1 for the literature list too, though I have substituted in a couple places ("Shakespeare Can Be Fun" in place of the Lamb versions, which I found unreadable). We are still reading Island Story and 50 Famous Stories, but I think we'll stop soon, as we are taking another tack with history (more of a classical approach). I agree with you, Melissa, that many of the books are outdated. Writing for children has come a long way in the last few decades, not only the quantity but the quality.

I still love the method. I think the narration and copywork are invaluable. The living books and short lessons are just what my kids like, so everyone's happy.

floridamom
02-17-2011, 12:17 AM
Coming in a bit late on this one.

I use CM with my eldest daughter (13). The only real change as she's gotten older is that her narrations are written rather than given orally. And now she's older, there's less of the hanging out in nature stuff :(

We used CM but got away from it the past few years. This year we went back to mostly CM (my son is also 13). One of our changes is the short lessons got longer. We still do nature study, because he really enjoys it.


I don't use Ambleside; whilst I see a value in classic books and literature, I don't think you have to stay in the 19th C to h/s in a CM way, and I feel some of their book selections are not very forward looking.

This is the same issue I have with AO. I know part of their reason for the books they use is that they're free, but they just don't appeal to us. Miss Mason herself said you didn't need to use old books to get a good education.


I love CM. I find that it's an approach that can easily increase in rigour as a child gets older by using increasingly complex books or other resources, subjects, and narrations.
My daughter still works in a CM way too - lessons in the morning, afternoons for life and other skills, paid work etc.
Imo the CM method is easy to secularize even though her writings are Christian.

Yes to all of this too. Penny Gardner has a secular version of her CM Study Guide (http://www.pennygardner.com/), and she addresses using CM with older children to some extent. Catherine Levison (http://www.charlottemasoneducation.com/) talks about older children as well, but I find her writing to be much too religious for my taste.

Charlotte Mason's students went all the way through what we call high school, so it can be done. Also, the original CM method was quite rigorous. I think that gets lost because of all the attention paid to short lessons, nature study and the arts, and letting the children have time to play.

alexdk
02-17-2011, 08:12 AM
Yes to all of this too. Penny Gardner has a secular version of her CM Study Guide (http://www.pennygardner.com/), and she addresses using CM with older children to some extent. Catherine Levison (http://www.charlottemasoneducation.com/) talks about older children as well, but I find her writing to be much too religious for my taste.



I have that secular version from Penny Gardner. It's been helpful. I am re-reading it now.

Lou
03-23-2011, 11:25 PM
I lean towards CM (what I know of it anyhow...still a complete newbie!) and I read to the kids then have them narrate back to me. However, I'm about 2 weeks away from starting to read Charlotte's volume set...hoping it will explain to me how you do math the CM way? If someone here is a CM guru, will you give me a brief run down of "how to" on some of the subjects other then language? Thanks...

Firefly_Mom
03-24-2011, 03:19 AM
If someone here is a CM guru, will you give me a brief run down of "how to" on some of the subjects other then language? Thanks...

Let me start off by saying that I'm definitely not a CM guru, but I'm going to give my 2 cents anyway. :) I found A Charlotte Mason Education by Catherine Levison to be an easy to follow how-to for the younger grades. I know somebody else mentioned that they didn't like her books because they found them to be too Christian, but I actually found her books to be the easiest to skip over in that area (unlike Karen Andreola's book, which has religion heavely permeated throughout.) I will be the second to recommend the Secular Charlotte Mason group, and you can also find them on Facebook (if you're in the Portland, OR area, you can go to their meetings, too.)

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
03-24-2011, 09:15 AM
Penny Gardner has a secular introductory guide to CM for sale at http://pennygardner.com/secular.html
It is only $5.

Charlotte Mason Help http://www.charlottemasonhelp.com/ has a good description of each subject.

Lou
03-24-2011, 09:25 PM
thank you :) I think I need to re-read the Catherine Levison book, because I recall she runs down each subject...but for some reason the HOW TO aspect of teaching some of the subjects didn't sink in the memory bank.

jess
03-25-2011, 01:31 PM
I'd love to work on developing something similar to Ambleside Online, with weekly schedules and so forth, that was secular and integrated more quality modern resources. Which I realize is sort of what secularcm.com is meant to be, but it seems more of a general CM resource than an actual curriculum.

Ok, I'm putting together a wiki. Any suggestions for a name? I'd like to avoid "Secular", both to avoid stepping on SecularCM's toes, and because I'd like to include religion... just comparative religion, not Bible As Truth :) CM For Today? InclusiveCM?

dbmamaz
03-25-2011, 08:24 PM
Jess does CM . ..

jess
03-25-2011, 10:28 PM
Jess does CM . ..

I was sitting here thinking "Well, isn't that obvious from my post?"

But no. Nothing self-referential :) Besides, I need HEEEEEELLLLLLLLPPP! as all my kids are still little

dbmamaz
03-25-2011, 10:40 PM
I'm no help. CM doesnt do it for me, and esp not for my kids. we are computer addicts who prefer science fiction when forced to read a book. slight exaggeration . . . slight.

jess
03-26-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm no help. CM doesnt do it for me, and esp not for my kids. we are computer addicts who prefer science fiction when forced to read a book. slight exaggeration . . . slight.
Hehe, that's pretty much me up until recently. I was a system administrator before having kids, and there was a good portion of my life when I read primarily SF. (Now? I don't read much of anything. I've finished 4 books this year so far other than kid read-alouds.)

Part of my reason for choosing CM is to hopefully give my kids more of a taste for classics than I have myself. But I think CM would be a lot more of a struggle if not started from a young age.

BUT... I don't see SF and CM as mutually exclusive either. Ambleside is a fairly narrow interpretation of CM, partially because it's very Christian-oriented, partially because they focus almost exclusively on materials available in the public domain.

Lou
03-27-2011, 01:09 AM
I'd love to work on developing something similar to Ambleside Online, with weekly schedules and so forth, that was secular and integrated more quality modern resources. Which I realize is sort of what secularcm.com is meant to be, but it seems more of a general CM resource than an actual curriculum.

Ok, I'm putting together a wiki. Any suggestions for a name? I'd like to avoid "Secular", both to avoid stepping on SecularCM's toes, and because I'd like to include religion... just comparative religion, not Bible As Truth :) CM For Today? InclusiveCM?

My two cents for what it's worth...I like Inclusive...because it gives a sense of all are welcome...

GinaG
03-31-2011, 02:27 PM
I will be the second to recommend the Secular Charlotte Mason group, and you can also find them on Facebook (if you're in the Portland, OR area, you can go to their meetings, too.)[/QUOTE]

I just need to clarify. SecularCM, the yahoo group, is owned by Becky S. and SecularCM, the website, is owned by Gina G. Other than sharing a similar name, the two have nothing to do with each other. The Facebook Secular Charlotte Mason page is for both the website and, occasionally, my local CM support group. Hope that helps. Gina

Firefly_Mom
03-31-2011, 03:26 PM
I just need to clarify. SecularCM, the yahoo group, is owned by Becky S. and SecularCM, the website, is owned by Gina G. Other than sharing a similar name, the two have nothing to do with each other. The Facebook Secular Charlotte Mason page is for both the website and, occasionally, my local CM support group. Hope that helps. Gina

Oops - my mistake! :blushes: I has assumed because the names were the same that they were both run by the same person.