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Resaj
11-05-2011, 12:05 AM
My daughter is six. She graduated kindergarten from a private Montessori school after attending for a year and a half. This is my first year homeschooling and we are having soooooo much fun.

I've told you that so I can tell you that my daughter is also incredibly shy and while she warms up to other kids quite quickly (five minutes) it can take take forever to never if you are an adult (forget about it if you are a doctor or dentist).

I am a brand new girl scout daisy leader and we have a very small troop of daisies and brownies. The other troop leader sent home getting to know you homework to fill out about the kids favorite things. I think a game would have been more fun but moving on... She asked each girl to stand up and talk about herself and most were able to do so. There were a few who were a little shy but their parents were there and together they got through it. Zara never volunteered of course, so she went last. I offered to help and she curled up in a ball in my lap, mumbled a few things and that was it. I didn't push more because this is girl scouts and not something that should be miserable.

But I was getting the look. You know the one, I bet. The one that says, well if this poor unsocialized child had only been sent to school, she wouldn't be like this now. See what she's done? And in a way, I guess it's true, I did create this, but totally with genetics, heck, the kid has been to school. Her teachers loved her. They were sad to see her go. She's not freaky, just really really shy.

But just to seal the deal on our homeschool awkwardness, my daughter does not know the pledge of allegiance. Whoops. And the other leader asked me if it was for religious reasons. Ummmmm, no. Just an oversight.

So... I have to ask. How long do you have to homeschool before you become "one of those people" and why did no one point out that it had already happened to me?

Teresa

dbmamaz
11-05-2011, 12:12 AM
First of all, my PLAN is to get my daughter to design a logo for me that says "we arent wierd because we home school, we home school because we're weird" and I will tie-dye them and sell them on the interwebs and at homeschool conventions and wherever homeschooling square pegs are found.

Second of all, it suprised me when my (french canadian) husband didnt know the pledge. My kids all went to school, tho my youngest only for a year. I wonder if he knows it? There's a great youtube video by 'the whitest kids you'll ever know' or something like that . . .let me see if i can find it: Yes, watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I)

Elidani
11-05-2011, 12:37 AM
I'm very sorry you had to deal with such blind ignorance so early in your home school journey. My eldest daughter's paternal grandmother still gives me that look every time she asks if we are home schooling still. One wouldve thought after 9+ years she would realize we have no intention of quitting. It isn't easy to be a home schooler, but even on the bad days I look at my kids and I know we are doing the right thing. My favorite place to go when my kids were around that age was the book stores. I always loved taking them there, because they would chat with older people and children alike. They became very sociable and elderly couples would always stop and ask me where my children learned such good manners. They were always so pleased to hear that we home schooled our children.

Resaj
11-05-2011, 12:37 AM
Lol. Thank you. That's exactly what I needed. I do think it's kind of weird how all schools start the day that way. When i was in middle school i took Latin and we learned the pledge in Latin. Hmmmmm. How many Romans pledged their allegience to the USA? I'll teach her from that video. Then they are sure to love us. Can I even admit in public that I feel a little creepy teaching her the pledge. Someone somewhere is going to climb out of the woodwork and insist I move to Canada. It's cold there. I like it here in Georgia.

Let me know when the shirts are available. We need adult small. Child small and xsmall. They can be our new school uniform.

Elidani
11-05-2011, 01:37 AM
I would like a few of those shirts as well. How much you asking for each?

Resaj, I wouldn't worry about teaching her the pledge too much. As a child, I refused to say it. They made me stand out of respect, but I wouldn't speak. I just find it insane to pledge my allegiance to a piece of cloth in honor of my country. There are so many things I could actively take part in to make my country a much better place and I just find swearing to be loyal to a flag ridiculous. It doesn't make our country a better place or actively show our pride in what we have. I'd rather spend my time teaching my children useful skills that might help our nation. I did teach them the pledge at one point, however I also taught them how I felt about reciting it too. After seeing that video, I wish I had seen that first. That is awesome and at the same time very sad, because of how true it is.

Jackielyn
11-05-2011, 03:31 AM
I don't think my 9 yr old son has ever said the pledge...ever...and I have no intentions of teaching it to him...unless he wants to know. There are other ways to show patriotism and I never knew what the pledge really meant as a child, just something we had to do everyday. I guess that makes us weird, unsocialized homeschoolers ;)

koalaborg
11-05-2011, 03:51 AM
I got the Intellego unit studies K-2 Civics:Symbols to use this year. We've so far only covered the flag - its history, meaning, etc. I think the next topic is learning the Pledge. We are working through this unit study SLOWLY along with the other things we are doing (for kindergarten) so we will learn it this year at some point. We are big on respecting the flag in our household (meaning we don't intentionally drop on floor or whatever) because we do understand its importance. But we aren't going to start the day with the Pledge or anything like I've read some homeschoolers do. I stopped saying it in highschool - I would only stand. Since I won't have her recite the pledge beyond learning it for the Civics unit study, she probably will only remember pieces of it, since we aren't in a setting where it is done everyday.

SilverFirefly
11-05-2011, 08:19 AM
We are starting our HS day with the pledge this year (Yeah, I know, it’s shocking right?). But we aren’t doing it because I think it is important for DS to actually pledge his allegiance to the flag. I want him to memorize it because I think it is important for cultural competence (and to avoid “those looks”). I figured that if he learns it now (DS is 4) when memorization is easy it will be in his repertoire if/when he is in a situation where he needs/wants to recite it. I doubt we will continue to start our day with it beyond this year (unless he wants to) but we will probably revisit it at some point to talk about the history and meaning of the pledge in a government/civics context.

Teri
11-05-2011, 09:11 AM
My kids all learned the pledge once they were IN scouts.
So, did they SAY something that makes you think they were assuming that her issues were because she is homeschooled? Or did you make that assumption?
Personally, I prefer to be in a homeschool group for younger scouts. My 9 and 10 year old are Juliettes this year (we do it alone, no troop). My son was in a homeschool den for his cub scout pack (him and two other boys). Now that he is a boy scout, his troop doesn't think twice about him being homeschooled.

dottieanna29
11-05-2011, 09:23 AM
Yeah, we definitely need some of those t-shirts. I say something like that all the time - my son isn't like this because we homeschool, we homeschool because he's like this. Although he's actually at the opposite extreme - he will walk up to anyone, adult or child, and just start talking to them. Asking questions, giving our family history. Most adults think it's cute, most kids find him overwhelming. Our "problems" are more extremely poor impulse control, no filter on what he says (with a tendency toward the truly inappropriate) and a tendency to get right up in people's faces. The downside to a total lack of shyness.

My son went to Early Intervention at our elementary school from 3 to 4 years old. I think they did the pledge every day but I'm not sure. He doesn't seem to know it at all and we haven't done anything to teach it to him. I do plan to do that Intellego unit toward the end of our US History study so I guess he'll learn it then.

My son also doesn't know how to tie his shoes or ride a bike, refuses to wear anything but sweatpants so isn't good with zippers or buttons but can figure out any video game or television remote control. I just figure those things would probably still be true with him in school.

raesrose
11-05-2011, 09:42 AM
I'm with SilverFirefly, my ds will learn the pledge simply to get through social situations. I had so many of those moments as a child, when you realized everyone else knew something you didn't, and I don't want my son to go through that. But as he is about to start Cub Scouts, I doubt it'll be an issue. He'll learn it pretty soon.

T-shirts in a 2x and child medium please!

zcat
11-05-2011, 09:51 AM
My dd does not know the pledge of allegiance. I personally feel it is creepy and bizarre to require/pressure small children to regularly say a pledge of allegiance (that they do not understand anyway) so I would be giving those people funny looks right back.
I will introduce the pledge and its history next year.

We are different. That is why we are homeschooling.

Jilly
11-05-2011, 10:08 AM
I don't think my 9 yr old son has ever said the pledge...ever...and I have no intentions of teaching it to him...unless he wants to know. There are other ways to show patriotism and I never knew what the pledge really meant as a child, just something we had to do everyday. I guess that makes us weird, unsocialized homeschoolers ;)

This is my youngest. He has never said the pledge, and honestly I don't even think he knows what it is. Oh well, there are more important things in life than the pledge. :)

Riceball_Mommy
11-05-2011, 10:28 AM
Resaj, my daughter sounds a lot like yours. She'd never be able to do a presentation as she is right now. She very friendly with kids, and sometimes adults though. She will talk to adults if she can do it on her terms though, if they approach her (especially relatives) she shuts down. If she's allowed to just start talking to them when she's ready she'll be fine. She's never been to school though, but her being like this is why we homeschool. She's already way more socially adept than I am, and I went to public school from pre-K through 12.

Also she's never said the pledge, it was actually a suggestion on how to start the day in the Calvert lesson manual. I don't feel like we need something to signify the start of the day, other than let's start school. We'll cover the pledge and it's history at some later point when we cover US History. I want her to know the meaning behind it, rather than mindlessly saying some words while we stand and stare off into space, while facing the direction of the flag.

bcnlvr
11-05-2011, 11:20 AM
I grew up on an American compound overseas. We did not say the pledge. My kids don't know it. I just asked ds10 (who did ps k-2) if he learned it, he said yes. I asked him to say it. He said, "say it? It's a song, mom, we sang it every morning. And I don't remember it...it was too long ago and not important."

Huh? It can be sung? Now I'm confused.

Greenmother
11-05-2011, 11:24 AM
They say the pledge at a BeeKeepers Meeting, so I help them through it there.

There is nothing wrong with it, but I don't attach the religious adherence to it that some people do in the world.

Gabriela
11-05-2011, 11:35 AM
we arent wierd because we home school, we home school because we're weird

I LOVE THIS!!! We are sooooooooo making a Tshirt, if you don't mind me stealing it.
Seriously though, you should make bumper stickers and sell them.

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
11-05-2011, 11:59 AM
Cara, please tell Heron that there is a huge demand for "weird homeschooler" swag--she could make a killing! I don't put bumper stickers on my car--not the type to wear my heart (or political leanings) on my sleeve--but I would totally put one on with your motto.

My son was pretty weird even before we started homeschooling. He's super impulsive, like Dorothy's son. My daughter is pretty shy, especially when prodded to speak to someone.

My son learned the pledge of allegiance in kindergarten, but I'm not sure if he remembers it. I'm teaching my daughter the 4-H pledge because the club recites it at the beginning of every meeting.

dbmamaz
11-05-2011, 12:47 PM
I just asked my son if he remembered it - he said 'what?' so then i said he had to say it every day, and I said the first line and he said "oh, yeah" and I asked if he could say it, and he said no . . .but mostly he was trying to get me off his back so he could get back to playing Age of Empires 2. I didnt even know we had that. Apparently Orion bought it at the home school convention used sale. I'll try to ask Heron again, but . .. sigh. I could ask for it for xmas present, maybe that would work. And feel free to make your own. Its a 'plan' as in i've been talking about it forever, but its unlikely to ever happen.

JinxieFox
11-05-2011, 12:54 PM
Aw, Teresa, you aren't "one of those people". We don't bother with the pledge... even though my son has only lived on Air Force bases since his birth. ;)

And so you have a shy child. There's no law against that. My sister's daughter is the third of four children, and she was shy as heck until she hit about... Hm, maybe 8 or so. She basically just grew out of it. Was that due to school? I don't know, but if you have a bunch of older siblings around, why would you be shy and slow to warm up to people? I don't think that the amount of socialization necessarily has anything to do with it and your little Zara will either grow out of that, or that will just be her personality.

There are plenty of shy adults who went to public school.

In our SpiralScouts troop, we had the most gregarious - no, obnoxious - family, and their youngest was also very shy. You would think that with such loud parents and older siblings, the youngest would come right out of her shell too. Nope!

And my husband is super shy and quiet, yet he went to public school... and basic training... and more. So don't worry. You aren't one of "those" homeschoolers. :)

Lak001
11-05-2011, 02:54 PM
I want to sign up for those t-shirts Cara. One medium girls, and one adult large.

My dd learnt the pledge when she was in school. I don't know if she has forgotten it by now. I wonder how imperative is it to recite the pledge.
Do HSers recite the pledge too?

dbmamaz
11-05-2011, 05:30 PM
I know i've read of some homeschoolers who make a classroom with desks and a flag and say the pledge every morning. But i think the ones i've read about admit that didnt last long.

Shaunam
11-05-2011, 08:00 PM
My son is almost 7 and doesn't know the pledge. I don't intend to teach it to him, at least not in the context it's usually taught.

And I'd also like one of those t-shirts. Lol

My son has little issues, but that's WHY I homeschool. I had many of the same issues as a kid and I was public schooled...and did not thrive there.

jar7709
11-05-2011, 10:42 PM
I would totally buy one of those shirts for everyone in the family!

My son knows the pledge, but only because he went to public school for 6 months. DD does not know it, and I might tell it to her sometime, but I don't care if she learns it. I always treated the pledge in school the way I treat prayer over dinner when I'm at my family's house--politely going along with the body motions but not opening my mouth. :) Plus, the kids are actually half Canadian so that makes me a little extra queasy over pledging their alliegiance to the U S of A.

But, we're "those homeschoolers" too at our 4-H club. DS is super gregarious until it comes time to discuss something he's unfamiliar or uncomfortable with and then he clams up and gets weird...it comes naturally out of being an intense/gifted kid and we're working on it, but he gets some looks from those not familiar with these types of kids. Since those looks started in public school from people who were supposed to know better (I'm looking at you, school counselor) I'm getting pretty good at letting it roll off my back.


Anyway, even though my kids may not know the pledge, they know all the periods of the Mesozoic Era by heart, and that's really what's important, isn't it? ;)

Penguin
11-05-2011, 11:15 PM
DS did say the pledge at least one or two days a week in K and part of 1st when he was at the school district's homeschool support program. I have never really discussed it with him, except to find out that he didn't really understand it or remember it. I'm not American though, and I don't really care. We certainly don't make it part of our life in any way. DH is American, and objects to the reciting of it with no explanation of its meaning.

And I love the t-shirts idea too, Cara. I'd love it on a tote bag or something, that I could carry library books in? You and/or Heron should just look at Zazzle (http://www.zazzle.com/sell/designers) or Cafe Press (http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/?refId=27) or something, get it set up and give us all the URL. You have plenty of us ready to buy!

Ayem
11-06-2011, 07:40 AM
Australians tend to be a lot more relaxed about these things. I don’t even know if we have a pledge.
We used to have to sing the national anthem on Mondays at school when I was a kid (it was God save the Queen then later Advance Australia Fair).
I had no idea...
We had to send her Victoria (Why she wanted our state I didn’t know)
We also had to send her Happy and Gloria (Straight to Snow White, and I didn’t know who Gloria was)
Then she wanted to rain over us. (I can still remember standing there wondering how she would do that.)
I found the whole thing highly confusing.

Actual words were:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious
Long may she reign over us...

Not sure what we do now, neither of my kids know the anthem.

I think I’d be up for the t-shirts. Maybe... I’m a bit sensitive about being perceived as weird still. Great line though.


ETA: Actually, I think an Aussie kid who knew the words would be looked at a bit strangely.:D But maybe that's just the circles I move in.

Jeni
11-06-2011, 10:08 AM
My dd knows the pledge. We say it twice a month at 4H. It's also played on the country station at 3 pm every day. I think it's important, my mom thinks it's un-American if you don't know it.

As for getting "that look", yes, I've gotten it. It's not so bad now but I've run into the same exact experience you did at Girl Scouts. Dd has always been shy, she takes a while to warm up to new people. She wouldn't play the games in Girl Scouts and that got the look... and questions... and concern. People who have known her for a few years are still amazed that she's actually a very social, talkative young lady. It's called maturity.

Lou
11-06-2011, 11:34 AM
My daughter is six. She graduated kindergarten from a private Montessori school after attending for a year and a half. This is my first year homeschooling and we are having soooooo much fun.

I've told you that so I can tell you that my daughter is also incredibly shy and while she warms up to other kids quite quickly (five minutes) it can take take forever to never if you are an adult (forget about it if you are a doctor or dentist).

I am a brand new girl scout daisy leader and we have a very small troop of daisies and brownies. The other troop leader sent home getting to know you homework to fill out about the kids favorite things. I think a game would have been more fun but moving on... She asked each girl to stand up and talk about herself and most were able to do so. There were a few who were a little shy but their parents were there and together they got through it. Zara never volunteered of course, so she went last. I offered to help and she curled up in a ball in my lap, mumbled a few things and that was it. I didn't push more because this is girl scouts and not something that should be miserable.

But I was getting the look. You know the one, I bet. The one that says, well if this poor unsocialized child had only been sent to school, she wouldn't be like this now. See what she's done? And in a way, I guess it's true, I did create this, but totally with genetics, heck, the kid has been to school. Her teachers loved her. They were sad to see her go. She's not freaky, just really really shy.

But just to seal the deal on our homeschool awkwardness, my daughter does not know the pledge of allegiance. Whoops. And the other leader asked me if it was for religious reasons. Ummmmm, no. Just an oversight.

So... I have to ask. How long do you have to homeschool before you become "one of those people" and why did no one point out that it had already happened to me?

Teresa

You sound totally normal to me....I always go home after dealing with that type of stuff with a giant sigh of relief I'm not one of them...

My daughter is a "shy" (that's what other people call it) person...but I know her all too well...she acts shy when she's not interested or unsure...but she doesn't have a shy bone in her body when she likes someone...she is like her daddy...she either likes you or dislikes you right away and if she doesn't care for you, she wants nothing to do with you...but if she likes you, she will be an outspoken happy go lucky ball of spunk (at times sassy and bossy too) soooo I would call that your daughter's intuition not socialization...society is sooo caught up on socialization, I think socialization should happen at home...they can practice what they learn at home later down the road...but 3 & 6 is still very young. Mama's safe arms is best at that age IMHO.

Lou
11-06-2011, 11:40 AM
Oh forgot to dress the pledge...hubby was a little disappointed that I hadn't taught that yet, but when I did get a book on it, read it a few times my 6 year old had it down pat and my 4 year old didn't get it...and to be honest the concepts mentioned IN the pledge are for older kids...at this age, they can memorize it, they can learn to say it with their hand over their heart, but they have NO CLUE what it means...so I wouldn't worry about that until they can understand it's meaning...might make more sense, be more worth while and more impressive then the quick (not even saying the full words) version they will adapt to if they memorize it now. Again JMHO...

Kind of like Ayem above...

Or like my parents meal time prayer growing up...All I know was to fold my hands and say "blessus oh lord for theesthygives whichwe are aboutto recieve for the boundy christolord amen (NO CLUE what that meant).....I think a "Thanks for this good food" would of been better and easier to understand for me...

Resaj
11-06-2011, 12:28 PM
It IS true that someone who doesn't know us well, wouldn't know what a non-stop chatterbox she is. And I don't want to teach her the pledge right now because I don't like to teach her to mindlessly repeat things that she doesn't understand. It's the same problem I have with religion (blind faith, eewwww). I'm also not ready for us to start US history. At the same time, I'd like to spare her the embarrassment of being the only kid who doesn't know it. Ahhh.... Parenting dilemmas. You know what? I'll just ask her if she want's to memorize this thing that all the other kids are saying and I'll give her the cliff notes history if she does.

Thank you for all the sharing.

And I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to join a homeschool troop (someone mentioned that) but there aren't any around. There weren't even enough children to gather a full brownie or daisy troop so we're a combined daisy/brownie group. I'm representing the homeschool contingent (be we ever so humble as we are only one) by being a leader, so ha! We could Juliette, but we really wanted to get out and meet some other little girls.

Resaj
11-06-2011, 12:32 PM
Australians tend to be a lot more relaxed about these things. I don’t even know if we have a pledge.
We used to have to sing the national anthem on Mondays at school when I was a kid (it was God save the Queen then later Advance Australia Fair).
I had no idea...
We had to send her Victoria (Why she wanted our state I didn’t know)
We also had to send her Happy and Gloria (Straight to Snow White, and I didn’t know who Gloria was)
Then she wanted to rain over us. (I can still remember standing there wondering how she would do that.)
I found the whole thing highly confusing.


LOL

Thank you for that. :)

SueEllen Grieves-Curl
11-06-2011, 02:22 PM
Oh wow I have been there a few times. In time you will see just how different your child is from those that go to PS. Personally I do not think it is a bad thing at all. Just the fact that you are going outside and getting her around other children shows that you know the importance of socializing her. Yet you have chosen to take a much harder route to educate your child and than make sure she is some what social. Frankly you will see the differences as she gets older. And don't worry she will come out of her shell. Picking on the fact that she does not know the pledge I am going to inform you that many that "know" the pledge can not really tell you what it means. So yes knowing the words might be important to many but I feel knowing the meaning is much more important.

drea
11-06-2011, 04:00 PM
First of all, my PLAN is to get my daughter to design a logo for me that says "we arent wierd because we home school, we home school because we're weird" and I will tie-dye them and sell them on the interwebs and at homeschool conventions and wherever homeschooling square pegs are found.
[/URL]

My first attempt at including a quote but - I WANT THIS SHIRT!! LOL

dbmamaz
11-06-2011, 05:50 PM
My daughter, who has seemed more annoyed w me this year, just told me to do it myself in word. hrmph.

rumbledolly
11-06-2011, 07:17 PM
First of all, my PLAN is to get my daughter to design a logo for me that says "we arent wierd because we home school, we home school because we're weird" and I will tie-dye them and sell them on the interwebs and at homeschool conventions and wherever homeschooling square pegs are found.



Cara you need to do this! I have a Cafe Press store and my top selling items are all homeschool related (my top seller is a marching band graphic w/Homeschool Marching Band). You need to open your own store and sell these shirts to us!

As for the pledge. I'm sure DD knows it since she was in PS until last year but I can bet she has no clue what any of it really means. I think it's a good thing to know but I have issues pledging a flag - not to being loyal to my country. Most kids I know mumble through it. They are the same ones that are way too old to be reminding to take off their hats and standing during the national anthem or anything/anyplace where you should show respect.

My feeling is it's more important to know what the pledge means, what the flag stands for and that sort of stuff than being good at memorizing the words.

I should point out I played Betsy Ross in our 2nd grade school play - my first acting gig! It turned into a comedic performance for some reason - but I sure enjoyed the applause!

dbmamaz
11-06-2011, 07:26 PM
I still remember my first solo . . . 'everyone makes mistakes' song from sesame street, second grade. And i made a mistake and kept going!

LovingMyChildren
11-06-2011, 08:30 PM
My daughter just joined Daisy Scouts as well and she had to ask me at the end what the heck that group thingy was where everyone was holding their chest. "Mommy, was that praying with one hand?" Since she's never prayed she only knew that people put their hands together on their chest. LOL! So, she wants to learn. I'll let her. She has a deep sense of meaning to "rituals" and cultural type things like the Star Spangled Banner. So, I figure, I'll help her learn it. We already talked about the G*d part - I thought that was the most important part for me to discuss. I asked her to remember that this country has lots of people who don't believe in him and lots of people that believe in different stories about him or a higher power. That's as far as we got. We've been three times so each time I guess we'll talk more. AND - if you hs and you're "normal" - what's the point. :grin:

Resaj
11-06-2011, 10:29 PM
Don't get me wrong, we've always been different. But now we homeschool too. Poor kid. She's got no chance. At normal that is... But normal is soooooooooo boring anyway. She'll thank me some day, right?

dbmamaz
11-06-2011, 11:06 PM
when my kids were in the public school around here, i really struggled because they were SO different and just never fit in, and I kept feeling like they should try harder to fit in. finally i realized i was actually glad they werent cheerleaders and football players, cuz i never liked those kids in high school anyways. My kids take pride in being weird - i always did before we were here, and finally did again. But dh is uncomfortable when we talk like that.

lakshmi
11-07-2011, 12:46 AM
when my kids were in the public school around here, i really struggled because they were SO different and just never fit in, and I kept feeling like they should try harder to fit in. finally i realized i was actually glad they werent cheerleaders and football players, cuz i never liked those kids in high school anyways. My kids take pride in being weird - i always did before we were here, and finally did again. But dh is uncomfortable when we talk like that.

Yes, even my friends think I am weird. This town is just full of normal people so much so that I stand out everywhere I go, and I don't even have pink hair. So, my kids would definitely be seen as weird and that would effect their personalities and we'd be doing more talking on why little susie said such and such. Not interested.

As for the pledge. I hadn't even thought about it. We were at a Relay for Life and they sang the national anthem and I showed them how to stand with their hands over hearts. For me, it is about teaching them to fit in, by doing what is expected but by telling them that they don't have to believe it. So basically to lie. Yes, I teach my children to lie instead of the pledge.... Something funny about that. Scouts isn't something that interests me, but if 4-h or a scout troup did interest them, then I gues I would deal with teaching the words then.

Stella M
11-07-2011, 01:04 AM
I don't bother teaching the national anthem. It's nationalistic garbage. Imho.

But you have to teach your kids to not say that to the wrong people.
As for the pledge, it's a little freaky to outsiders. Love of country...hmmm...

To the OP, embrace the weird and the wacky. To stand a little outside the culture is a gift.

jenpenny5297
11-07-2011, 01:44 AM
My daughter was also VERY shy and was in school until she was 7 nearly 8. So school DOES not help. Those that think it may are just giving a blanket solution and not really thinking it through. My daughter was very friendly, well behaved, loved by her teachers and had a few very close friends but she would never have stood up in front of a group and spoke on her own. Now she is 10 and would do it quite easily. I think the best thing I ever did was pull her out of school a week after taking her brother out. It allowed her the time to grow emotionally and to find her inner confidence. She isn't always competing with 20+ other students so her thoughts and feelings get heard and really matter. I think she would still be a bit shy if it came to standing up in front of others and speaking but she would do it now. I could not say that a few years ago. You are doing exactly the right thing for her. I would also like to say having been a part of and worked with Girl Scouts, Brownies and now here in England a Brownie troop I have never had a leader ask the girls to do homework (unless of course they were trying to earn an interest badge) or speak in front of the group unless they had designed a song or short skit for the others to hear and then it is all of them working together on it. So if there is one child who is shy then maybe she can have a very small role and that child who is outspoken can have the majority. We also play getting to know you games when new Brownies come up from what they call Rainbows here. I think that would have been far better.

Marmalade
11-07-2011, 10:45 AM
My 7 year old can (and will happily) tell you that the fear of long words is hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia...but if you asked him to recite the pledge he'd probably give you a dead look for a split second, shrug his shoulders and say "heh-Can i go play?"

And as far as being shy? I think I will be starting my own thread later today...

theWeedyRoad
11-07-2011, 02:04 PM
I was a ps student.

And overcoming my social anxiety is now a life-long process. My dh has to basically babysit me in social situations because I get so nervous and panicky. Even in groups where I know everyone. I wasn't really a shy kid- ps gave me this 'gift'.

And my dd has MUCH more confidence since she came out of ps. She doesn't feel stupid anymore. She knows her opinions matter. She will now talk to adults. Homeschooling gave her that.


We're weird, too ;). I'm occasionally socially awkward. I crack jokes that I find hilarious but either a.) no one else understands. Or b.) no one else thinks are funny. Regardless, I'm the only one smiling. And after a bit it starts feeling like a baboon fear grimace (you know.. looks like a smile but isn't). I haven't taught the kids the pledge yet, either. idk.. something... odd about that. I want them to have pride in their country but ... not some sort of fundamental belief that everything is perfect. I want them to be future movers and shakers, creating an even BETTER country. Not mindless drones, who swear they'll uphold whatever standards are in place.

I'll teach them, someday. But I'm sure it will be quirky and odd (after all, I have the kids who think churches are really castles :P)

Resaj
11-08-2011, 09:47 PM
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia

Thank you for that! :)

I've seen some of those church-castles. I can think of so many better ways that money could have been spent. Hmmmm. They didn't ask me though. (But I often wonder what Jesus would have had to say about that.)


To the poster who wrote: To the OP, embrace the weird and the wacky. To stand a little outside the culture is a gift.

That is so true, but often something only learned with maturity. I remember being a very shy child myself and all I really wanted at that age was to fade into the children around me and avoid notice. Thank goodness I've matured and now flaunt the wacky wonder that is me every where I go! Maybe what I've really learned as a grown up is that sometimes I do prefer to fade and sometimes to stand out. After talking to Zara about it, she says she wants to learn the pledge and so I will teach it to her and some of the history behind it. Thank you all for your always illuminating advice.

T

albeto
11-08-2011, 09:56 PM
I just asked my 11 (almost 12 yo), and he said, "Um, I pledge, I pledge, I pledge allegiance...to the United States."

But to be fair, he's playing a zombie game on the tv so his attention is needed elsewhere, hehehe.

jess
11-09-2011, 12:08 AM
When i was in middle school i took Latin and we learned the pledge in Latin
We learned it in Spanish and French.

French was only a short elective - 6 weeks I think. I took Spanish for four years.

I can still say the pledge in Spanish, except for some reason I always insert "avec liberte" in place of "con libertad".

Oh, and DS was another who didn't know the pledge until embarrasingly late.



As for the pledge. I'm sure DD knows it since she was in PS until last year but I can bet she has no clue what any of it really means. I think it's a good thing to know but I have issues pledging a flag - not to being loyal to my country. Most kids I know mumble through it. They are the same ones that are way too old to be reminding to take off their hats and standing during the national anthem or anything/anyplace where you should show respect.

My feeling is it's more important to know what the pledge means, what the flag stands for and that sort of stuff than being good at memorizing the words.


Have your read The Children's Story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children's_Story) by James Clavell? It's based in similar feelings on the part of the author. I hope to use it in our school at some point.

Resaj
11-09-2011, 09:34 AM
We learned it in Spanish and French.

French was only a short elective - 6 weeks I think. I took Spanish for four years.

I can still say the pledge in Spanish, except for some reason I always insert "avec liberte" in place of "con libertad".

Oh, and DS was another who didn't know the pledge until embarrasingly late.




Have your read The Children's Story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children's_Story) by James Clavell? It's based in similar feelings on the part of the author. I hope to use it in our school at some point.

No, never read that, but the brief synopsis I just googled now has me talked out of teaching her the pledge right now. Eeek. What's a tightrope walking mom to do?

So be sure when you step, Step with care and great tact. And remember that life's A Great Balancing Act. --Dr. Seuss

Sheesh.

jess
11-09-2011, 09:53 AM
No, never read that, but the brief synopsis I just googled now has me talked out of teaching her the pledge right now. Eeek. What's a tightrope walking mom to do?
I think you can teach it in context (I imagine there are picture books that give a line by line explanation), and then repeat it just often enough that they remember it, but not often enough for it to become totally routine and meaningless.

albeto
11-09-2011, 12:51 PM
I think you can teach it in context (I imagine there are picture books that give a line by line explanation), and then repeat it just often enough that they remember it, but not often enough for it to become totally routine and meaningless.

My son (the one I asked last night) said the pledge every day at school for four years. Two years later he can't remember any of it. Granted, we don't do things like boy scouts, 4-H is deadly boring around here, and I don't know where else a kid would need this, but knowing to stand still when everyone else does seems to me like sufficient enough social skills in this regard.

To the OP - welcome to the world of homeschooling! I also reside in the world of Special Needs and so far my Atheism citizenship hasn't caused any problems but my anti-theism hat does bother some people. I think in short, homeschooling or not, people tend to judge others against their own experiences and homeschooling is just one of those experiences most people don't have. I've learned to ignore stupid comments rather than internalize them and my life has become more comfortable because of it. Good luck!

hreneeh
11-10-2011, 04:19 PM
I have a problem with it because I don't agree with the pledge! I don't believe in God and I don't believe we are the best country in the world, I don't think there is a best country in the world. That being said my son (as of now at the age of 7.5) wants to be like his daddy and join the Army. In basic we had to recite the pledge, the army song, the national anthem and usually the soldier's creed every day and by ait the NCO creed as well. You pretty much had to know them on day 2. The people who didn't already know the pledge and the anthem were rEALLY hurting and I had to do a fair number of push-ups because of them. So if as he gets older he chooses to continue his path towards the Army I will teach him both and along with the ability to know what is utter bullshit and what isn't. All in the hopes of saving him a few sore muscles and few more winks of sleep at night.

Resaj
11-11-2011, 08:11 PM
LOL Hreneeh. And is that the dropstitch scarf in your avatar there? Sorry, knitting always distracts me.

She's just this age right now. Apparently this age for which I am not prepared. She's starting to make assumptions about God and Christianity based on ideas that she picked up from my family and that don't apply at our home and I feel like I'm in constant deprogram mode. Yet, she's very sensitive to what people say and don't say to her, that I feel stuck in some ways. I don't want to teach her or not teach her things that are going to make her vulnerable, which is, of course, impossible. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I need a giant roll of bubble wrap.

I had to explain to her earlier this week that in our family (here's the disclaimer for those who are paying attention)... In our family, we view the bible as stories, not fact. That they are stories about what Christians believe about God. Some of them are nice, and some of them are not very nice. There are other books, about what other cultures believe about God. Now let's talk about the Pledge, gay-marriage, republicans and democrats, pacifists, veganism, and whether wool or alpaca provides a superior fiber for knitted garments (obviously alpaca and anyone who argues this is a complete idiot).

T

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
11-12-2011, 02:38 PM
Weird homeschooler moment: not only does my daughter neglect to close the bathroom door at my son's karate studio, but she brings me a sample of the toilet paper and exclaims (in front of the other parents), "Mama, they have the soft toilet paper! Feel it!"

hreneeh
11-12-2011, 09:18 PM
LOL Hreneeh. And is that the dropstitch scarf in your avatar there? Sorry, knitting always distracts me.

She's just this age right now. Apparently this age for which I am not prepared. She's starting to make assumptions about God and Christianity based on ideas that she picked up from my family and that don't apply at our home and I feel like I'm in constant deprogram mode. Yet, she's very sensitive to what people say and don't say to her, that I feel stuck in some ways. I don't want to teach her or not teach her things that are going to make her vulnerable, which is, of course, impossible. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I need a giant roll of bubble wrap.

I had to explain to her earlier this week that in our family (here's the disclaimer for those who are paying attention)... In our family, we view the bible as stories, not fact. That they are stories about what Christians believe about God. Some of them are nice, and some of them are not very nice. There are other books, about what other cultures believe about God. Now let's talk about the Pledge, gay-marriage, republicans and democrats, pacifists, veganism, and whether wool or alpaca provides a superior fiber for knitted garments (obviously alpaca and anyone who argues this is a complete idiot).

T

You are absolutely correct only an idiot wouldn't take alpaca any day. I got some beautiful alpaca and Maryland Sheep and Wool last year that is just waiting for me to make it into a Jarrod Flood shawl. But I've been so damned lazy with my knitting recently.

kcanders
11-14-2011, 12:53 AM
My daughter just asked me to teach her the pledge. She is almost 9 and went to a Montessori school until we started homeschooling last year, so she had never heard the pledge until recently. Now she is on the gymnastic team and they say the pledge before their meets (yes, it seems strange to me too). She asked if I knew that thing all the other girls were saying and asked if I could teach it to her. I have always thought that saying the pledge was sort of strange, but I am going to teach her because she doesn't want to be the weird one that just says a word of it now and then. Hopefully she learns it quick so we don't have to go over it too many times. :-)

dbmamaz
11-14-2011, 09:27 AM
i'm sure you can find it on youtube for her to practice with!

Dutchbabiesx2
11-14-2011, 02:49 PM
I have a problem with it because I don't agree with the pledge! I don't believe in God and I don't believe we are the best country in the world, I don't think there is a best country in the world.
.

So a week ago my hubby took the Oath to be a US citizen. It is an odd strange arrangement. At some point I had to tell my kids to stand up for the National Anthem. It was waaayyyy too patriotic. I do understand some people get into the whole great American pride thing, but we do not and our children are dual citizens.
I was disturbed by watching the video and hearing the oath, but now hubby can't be kicked out for some silly reason, he gets to vote and now gets is SS when he retires (but that is a thread of a different color).

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
11-14-2011, 04:36 PM
Congrats to your husband, Dutchbabies! I have a copy of my great-grandfather's naturalization certificate, in which he promises to relinquish his loyalty to the emperor of Austria-Hungary and be an upstanding U.S. citizen. It's a very interesting document. :)

Penguin
11-14-2011, 06:38 PM
So a week ago my hubby took the Oath to be a US citizen. It is an odd strange arrangement. At some point I had to tell my kids to stand up for the National Anthem. It was waaayyyy too patriotic. I do understand some people get into the whole great American pride thing, but we do not and our children are dual citizens.
I was disturbed by watching the video and hearing the oath, but now hubby can't be kicked out for some silly reason, he gets to vote and now gets is SS when he retires (but that is a thread of a different color).

Ohhhh, I should really do that too. Sigh. I've been here 18 years and have never wanted to give up my British citizenship, but it would certainly be nice to have a more "permanent" feeling here. It's changed in the last 10 years -- it used to feel permanent. Now, though.... well, I'd like to be able to live in the UK at some point, for the kids to experience that, but I can't leave for more than one year without losing residency.

Was it hard for your DH to do it? How long did the process take? I started to research the application a few months ago, but got stuck when they asked for a record of all the times you've left and re-entered the country. I can't remember 18 years of that!!

dbmamaz
11-15-2011, 10:28 PM
Well, that 'permanance' thing was how my dh convinced me to marry him - i really just wanted to live together. But he has no interest in becoming a citizen. He says Raven is dual w canada, but he keeps failing to register him . . . and he's 8 yo now. Whatever. Dh still promises we can retire to canada some day

leanderthal
11-16-2011, 05:45 PM
We were in the school system for 9 years combined, and I know my oldest would usually choose not recite the pledge. I wouldn't recite it at assemblies myself. No one ever commented on it, and we didn't draw attention to ourselves. I once got detention in high school for talking during the pledge/devotional (in north Georgia they read a bible verse over the P.A. system.) My punishment was to write an essay on why I loved God and my country. I refused, snuck out and called my parents. They yanked me out of that school that afternoon!