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Greenmother
09-14-2011, 12:34 PM
ADHD has a lot of ties to Pesticides. Here is just one of several papers on the subject from the Journal, Pediatrics. (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/6/e1845.full?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=chlorpyrifos&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=118&issue=6&resourcetype=HWCIT)

All pesticides associated with neurological dysfunction, block the uptake of acetylcholine and are usually bioaccumulated in fat. And kids and women have a lot more adipose [fat] tissue than adult-males.

Do parents of ADHD children or adults, consider supplementing a child's acetylcholine? Since this is both a very important neurotransmitter and nootropic in the brain, as well as an anti-excitory chemical associated with the nervous system?

Basically the most persistent and effective pesticides block or disrupt acetylcholine uptake in the insect body. The only problem is that insects use Acetylcholine and it's precursor [choline] the same way that humans do.

lakshmi
09-14-2011, 11:30 PM
My family, growing up generations on a farm surrounded by beans or corn, all have some serious ADHD symptoms. Wouldn't surprise me a bit. But have never tried supplemental Acetylcholine though.

Greenmother
09-15-2011, 04:46 PM
I was just wondering. My research has pulled up papers linking Pesticides to ADHD, Autism, Parkinsons and Alzheimers. All these Neurodegenerative conditions or developmental issues. And everything thus far shows chemicals that either block or disrupt Acetylcholine, and all of them are stored in the fatty [adipose] tissues. Many are also endocrine disrupters which usually means xeno-estrogens leading to infertility in boys or feminized traits, or in women of reproductive age--things like PCOS, Obsesity, thyroid issues, or even early onset of menses [I wonder].

I know as a Vet, that Agent Orange and other pesticides are also linked to Diabetes as well--which once again bends back toward Alzheimers and obesity. [see news story about inhaled insulin used to treat symptoms of alzheimers].

I am not sure that simply supplementing acetylcholine is the answer. Because there are a variety of factors at work here, one would be cleansing heavy metals.

Pesticides are usually derived from petroleum products which means heavy metals like lead and cadmium. So there is that too.
Disrupting acetylcholine during the embryonic development of the brain I would think would change the neural pathway so much, even with neuro-plasticity would the brain be able to regain some kind of chemical balance?

Acetylcholine is not just a neurotransmitter, but it is also important for the nervous system as well. In adults it's an anti-excitory chemical. It allows us to have precision in our movements unlike babies who wobble and weeble [see Parkinson's symptoms].


I became interested in these links when researching colony collapse disorder in bees. And started finding all these other journals and stories.

Is anyone else interested in this topic--more than just a passing fancy?

lakshmi
09-15-2011, 05:26 PM
I started to say that I had doubt that the cleansing would work, but then as I typed I decided that yes, a cleansing would in fact have an impact on the chemical balance. Which in turn would have an effect on the pathways.

But, the implications of petroleum based pesticides is only one factor. A large one in some communities, but also plastic manufacturing among others.

Would you be interested in looking more into the collapse of bee colonies or the pesticide / ADD connection or how to treat for these conditions. I am sort of interested in detox,and treatment, esp. pediatric, which is something I've not seen many parents willing to embark upon. But, would be interesting.

Greenmother
09-15-2011, 07:09 PM
I wonder if this is in part where the idea of Chelating Therapy came from for Autistic Children?

I am willing to explore the topic. My kids [to my knowledge] do not have these issues. Or if they do it's subclinical. So having the discussion and reading journals, etc., is quite a bit different than treatment.

Theory vs Practice--two different things.
:)

Greenmother
09-16-2011, 09:27 AM
I cannot imagine that anyone would think that a fetus in a mom on antidepressants wouldn't have issues with withdrawals. Common sense dictates that if the bottle says you have ween yourself off of it, then that is also true of the baby. I cannot imagine that they think that none of it will get past the Placental Barrier, since it is able to affect brain chemistry.

And now I see commercials for law suits against AntiDepressant manufacturers because of birth defects in children of mothers on them during pregnancy.

The Science we have now shows a direct link to ADHD and in some cases Autism to Pesticide exposure, especially fetal Pesticide Exposure. Good stuff from The Journals Pediatrics, Oxford, etc.,

And to me, Doctors are not what they used to be. There is definitely a slide backwards in treatment and knowledge with most doctors today. Which saddens me. I have many stories, but they are too personal to share here. Lets just say I don't turn my back on doctors and their pills.

lakshmi
09-16-2011, 12:46 PM
@corrigan, my guess is that anything we consume during pregnancy has an effect on the fetus, but what that is, may be negligible.

Doctors... have no detective skills anymore because of the technology and pharma sales. Got to do your own research for any condition that you have. Especially anything that involves combinations of drugs. Somethings just aren't avoidable, eg thyroid meds, ( some people disagree) but somethings are, and every treatment can only begin with permission.

Back to info ... getting more interested.

Greenmother
09-16-2011, 02:58 PM
I read a copy of Bee Culture recently about Bee Keeping and a recent study detected over 120 different kinds of pesticides, herbicides and fungicides in the honey, brood, wax and propolis.

Scary!

That's why when people talk about going organic. I guess technically you are only as organic as your closest neighbors. Which, when you keep bees is up to five miles away as the bee flies for forage. It's really yucky.

I know with the vaccination issue, that I get very frustrated too with doctors talking about how they have such a high success rate and then belittling people who will avoid vaccines or who will only allow one shot at a time.

They hand out paperwork when you take your child to get vaccinated and talk about all the side effects--both mild and severe.

Its easy to think of success rates when you only see children as a collective number. Its something else entirely when you are looking at your child weighing the individual risks.

Some vaccine reactions are caused apparently by a genetic issue involving the mitochondria. How much of this issue that science could solve if they started testing for that, so that we could space dosages out for starters.

The more they pretend that *nothing can go wrong, the more fear and suspicion they sow in the ranks of new parents. No one likes being told in a condescending tone to "Not worry their pretty little head over it." When you are a parent, that is all you do is worry.

Some of the issues that scientists have right now with people not trusting them is self inflicted. But many are so arrogant that they cannot see it. So they keep making the same mistakes over and over wondering why the results never change.

As for Pesticides--Big Big money there. And now with GM foods like Roundup Ready Corn, Soy, and Alfalfa--they trick the plant into producing the poison so imho we now take that poison up as micronutrients. And so do the bees and everything else.

lakshmi
09-16-2011, 04:41 PM
yes.

The great thing about GM food is that it is likely only those that can make money, corn, soy, tomatoes, which we could avoid. Doubtfully Mon Sant Toes will ever modify okra.

Bees have it rough and the collapse of colonies, and the lack of wild bees is a scary thing. Not surprised about what is contained within any of it. The problem with looking too closely is that you could end up looking to widely. As in, seeing the chemicals in the honey will lead you to look around at what you once ignored, eg only as organic as your neighbors.

Permaculture farming is something that is starting to take off in lots of places, one of which is Australia. These new methods use natural barriers to prevent some of the bug problems, thus reducing the amount of pesticides and so forth. BUT....currently, we live in farm country and we've seen what we call corn deserts. Nothing grows in the dirt. It used to be, even in the 80's that if left alone a field would at least grow somethings. Now of course it still does, and I am exaggerating, but the soils are light and brown.

Where in Ok are you? I am sure you've seen this.

When I was growing up, I remember small mills and grain silos in every town. Not anymore. The mass production of the produce has eliminated all of these tiny resources. Sorry getting away from neurology into economy. But if the needs of the many stop being about large corn/soy production we are sort of screwed.

Organix have change as well, how nice that the big agribusiness isn't using chemical cocktails on its produce. BUT... how do they get every single beet to look alike. Anyone with a garden knows that veggies aren't all that consistent.

So in addition to pesticides coming from long range, there are so many issues relating to food in this century and wow, should we even begin to talk about the water?

Lak001
09-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Sorry this is off topic, but I want to chime in and tell you all what happened during my pregnancy.
I was hypothyroid before I was pregnant, so i was put on levothyroxine. Also, since i was having trouble conceiving, the endocrinologist ordered some testa and my pituitary gland functions were abnormal, and was put on a medication called parlodel. I became pregnant while still on parlodel. I didn't know i was pregnant for 4 weeks, and after I was confirmed i was asked to stop parlodel. Now, my dd was born with a birth defect of the hands, where her left hand had malformation in the form of a missing pinky and syndactyly of middle and ring fingers. I was actually shocked, and I went and did my research, I realized that parlodel can cause birth defects. Now whom do I blame? Should I blame myself for not having done that research before i got pregnant, or should i blame the doc who was supposed to have warned me about it, but did not care to do so?

Lak001
09-16-2011, 11:33 PM
When I grew up in India in the 80s, genetically modified food was unheard of. India still followed agricultural practices that was prevalent for thousands of years. Ploughing the field using bullocks, and using cow-dung manure for fertilizers. Food was almost organically grown. Also, since the infrastructure did not support transporting food over long distances, most food was locally grown and consumed by people in the vicinities. And then came the multi-national companies with their fertilizers, GM seeds, and pesticides to increase food production to feed the big Indian population. Everything's not been the same. The good old days where my mother used to buy vegetables from local street vendors are gone. Retail chains have sprung up everywhere, selling veggies and fruits which are sitting in their freezers since god knows when.
Funny thing is, GM corn is a big thing in India right now. Its called the "American corn", and its freakin huge. People love it because its from America, and so it must be good. Also, Washington apples are the latest craze. People pay $2 for 1 apple. Haha.

Pulitzer prize winner Siddhartha Mukherjee's “The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer” mentions the rise of cancer in South asian countries. I haven't read the book, but I'm planning to. If things continue the way they are, we are sure heading towards doom. I hope the big business of GM crops pay for all their mistakes. I hope their's an awareness among general public. Also I hope the prices of organic produces is subsidized so everyone can afford to go organic.

lakshmi
09-17-2011, 12:16 AM
OT reply... tough call on that one, you needed the meds, but wow.. and still taking this now yes? And I got this from my friend Sami on FB..
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/make-room-for-hinglish/ thought of you.

RE: GM in India Wow, American corn. That sucks. And the sad part about it is that it is American corn and this is yucky. And domestic apples are one of the foods that get the most pesticide and I have paid big bucks for an american apple in Nanjing!! And sometimes I've paid big bucks for organic ones.

Lak001
09-17-2011, 12:02 PM
Lakshmi, thanks for that article. Interesting read. I have read several of those books in "Hinglish". I like reading them.

Organic apples cost big bucks. But I love how different they taste from their non-organic counterparts. Absolutely delicious!! Its a shame that i don't always get to buy organic ones because there are so pricey :(

Greenmother
09-17-2011, 04:26 PM
I saw that story about farmers beating up the Monsanto Rep. I can't say that I am surprised. Sorry I haven't posted more. I threw my back out and I am barely capable of typing coherent sentences.

lakshmi
09-18-2011, 12:03 AM
Best things for backs.... Ice, and acupuncture!!

Greenmother
09-18-2011, 04:06 PM
Acupuncturist is not available on the weekends.
:( Otherwise I would be there with bells on.

Anyhow here is my blog on Bees and Bee Keeping. There is a lot of material on pesticides--it's all preliminary stuff, but maybe it will get the ball rolling.
http://beeslikecrazy.blogspot.com/

There are several posts, you will have to go back a few pages to find them all. But it's interesting stuff.

Lak001
09-18-2011, 07:59 PM
Wow Greenmother. That blog of your's is a treasure of information!! Shows just how passionate you are about it. Keep up the good work. I hope you can reach out to masses somehow.

Greenmother
09-18-2011, 10:51 PM
I am not really into the masses. Just reaching out to interested parties.

Greenmother
09-20-2011, 09:06 PM
I went to the acupuncturist today. I still hurt like someone cracked me in the back with a 2X4 but the pain is less deep, less hot. Hopefully tomorrow will be better. Tonight I am taking the kids for a swim and I am going to float like toast.

But in relation to this thread. I found some interesting stuff at Science Daily regarding Pesticides and Gulf War Syndrome. I am going to go through that soon and link it up with other material.

:)
Thanks for putting up with me while grumpy and wounded.

lakshmi
09-20-2011, 11:05 PM
wounded sounds so militaristic.... ;)

no problem, just anecdotal, a mom with three kids, adhd, aspie and delayed from a farming community ...

Greenmother
09-20-2011, 11:18 PM
Grumpy and Gimpy?

I just got back from the YMCA, we went swimming and it felt soooo good on the back I am hoping tomorrow I will feel even better. Anyhow, here is a story that will blow your mind

http://www.onearth.org/article/undescended-testicles-phthalates

lakshmi
09-20-2011, 11:27 PM
i love that after all the BS she was shouting that she is still eating a Peppermint Patty! lol...

yes, milk tubes. Everything, every single thing that we eat has multiple impacts on this world. And it is disturbing really. I say as I set down the empty bowl that formerly held my Haagen Das!!

OrganicFrmGrl
09-23-2011, 09:03 PM
Ok so I had to chime in here. I am a firm beliver in going as organic a possible! I will try to make this short. We ate like most American people and thought nothing of it. My son was always getting some infection as a toddler like ear/sinus/and URI. He also had eczema, allergies and asthma. Never thought of it bc all my friends kids were going through the same. One day my son couldnt walk I took him to the ER and he was taken to the Children's Hosp. He was dx with a Autoimmune disease...no cure no treatment. Wait for the inflammation to go away on it own. It did in 3 days. It happened in a month. A month after swollen lymph nodes throughout his body. He was worked up for may things which can scare the crap out of you. It came back he had a weird virus. Anyway, the next day we went organic. No dyes and no processed foods either. Now at the age of 8 I have a different kid. The Autoimmune disease has never flared up again and he has never been on antibiotics since before that time. He occasional uses an inhaler once evey month or 2 if he gets into some candy with dye in it.

So i tried to keep that as short as possible but, I am a firm beliver in Organics so much so that my husband retired from the navy and I quite my job we moved and now we have a small organic farm in WV.

Greenmother
09-23-2011, 10:22 PM
I am really glad to read that you had a somewhat happy ending. It must have been absolutely terrifying for you to go through all that with a small child.

We aren't totally organic. But about 1/3rd the way there. It is a real change. And the money can be a difficult issue. Normally we have a garden, but the drought we had, it dropped the water level and actually raised the temp of the soil so that stuff cooked in the ground, even with watering. :(

Here is to my make shift winter-garden in a make shift hoop house!

We raise our own eggs and we have our first bee hive. Although this season has been rough on them as well.

I am sorry I haven't gotten around finishing that post for the blog I talked about earlier. I have been sort of out of it the past couple days. Aware enough to have giggle and fart sessions, but not good for much else.

More later :)

Lak001
09-23-2011, 10:40 PM
Today I realized we've eaten the recalled cantaloupe. I bought this cantaloupe from Walmart a few weeks back, and I bet those tainted ones were on the shelves then. The disconcerting part is that the infection can show up upto 70 days after the consumption. Hmmm...I'm wondering when that 70 days will be up. If you don't see me on this forum for the next few weeks, you'd know what went wrong with me.

Greenmother
09-23-2011, 10:53 PM
Normally I am not a big fan of Antibiotics, but perhaps you should talk to your doctor about a prophylactic dose of antibiotics since you have potentially been exposed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listeria

There are natural antibiotics, but since we are also talking children here, I would suggest that you consider researching this yourself first or locating a naturopath doctor and getting advice on substances and dosages if you choose to go that route. I did find some pages about regular food stuffs that can be used to boost the immune system that have antimicrobial properties.

Common natural foods that are antibiotic are garlic
http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leo-galland-md/health-benefits-garlic_b_900784.html

and ginger.
http://www.boost-immune-system-naturally.com/health-benefits-of-ginger.html

I am sure your Tumeric would be a good one too, as far as things you can ingest.
http://www.healthdiaries.com/eatthis/20-health-benefits-of-turmeric.html

Amla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_gooseberry

So maybe some hot spicey food is in order and some ginger tea!

Lak001
09-23-2011, 11:18 PM
I use all those daily in my cooking, Greenmother. except the Amla. I don't find that here. But garlic, ginger, and turmeric is an everyday occurrence in our daily food.

Greenmother
09-23-2011, 11:49 PM
You can order the Amla from the San Francisco Herb Company or you can buy it as a supplement from various venders online.

You know here in the west, we make a vinegar

Red Wine Vinegar [regular stuff you find at the grocery store] and then you put several cloves of garlic in it. And let it sit over night. Have a teaspoon every morning. as it gets older it will get hotter with the garlic, but its very very good for you. It will be hot, sour and spicey, but it does keep the flu away, and it might help with this as well. You might even know of similar herbal vinegars. I would go so far as to put a bit of oregano in it too.

And have that ginger and lemon tea nightly with some good raw honey.

But you know, I would still talk to your doctor, the pediatrician at least. So they have a heads up about this situation.

gidamom
09-24-2011, 12:11 AM
Well I have two different comments/thoughts:

1) I feel pretty sure that my ds has ADHD :( I feel horrible, because I do not know how to help him. DH and I feel that we don't want to give him meds, so any thoughts or ideas about how we can possibly help him naturally would be truly appreciated.

2) I am SUPER concerned about the way we all eat. We have very limited organic options where we live, and the few we DO have are VERY VERY expensive. I would LOVE more info about how I can "clean up" our way of eating. I really hate the idea of putting all that junk into our bodies...but have very little idea how to go about eating better...HELP!

OrgncFrm Grl- Ia m so glad your son was able to get well! It's inspiring to hear how changing your eating helped him so much!! I'd love to hear more about what I can do!!

Greenmother
09-24-2011, 12:18 AM
I think that one big step is to try and eat more local. Check out your local coops and see what is available.

Gidamom, do you live in an area where you can keep some chickens and/or a small garden?

Container gardening even. One big thing is that oatmeal and green leafy vegies are the scrubbing bubbles of our bodies. If they aren't full of chemicals, these two things can help a body by binding with toxins, heavy metals and bad fats and allowing the body to pass these things through the feces and urine.

Just real basic stuff.

I don't know that much about ADD or ADHD.

When I was a kid, it was food allergies.

I just came across all these stories and I thought wow--I wonder if anyone else had seen these stories and what they thought of them?

OrganicFrmGrl
09-24-2011, 09:05 AM
So yes, eating organic is expensive, but I have to say it is slowly getting more affordable as more and more people are realizing what is in thier food. If you can't go totally organic, nobody really can without raising it all on their own, the best is to cut out dyes and processed foods first! This will eliminate quite a bit of the crap! We eat really natural, not much in the freezer but meat and frozen veggies from the garden and a few from the store. No boxed foods and very few canned foods are on the shelves. My shelves are filled with beans of every kind, rice of every kind. All of our cookies and desserts are homemade. Every little bit helps. When i remember the site I will post but there are several sites out there that tell you the musts for organic eating and the few things its ok if you can't. Dairy products is a must for organics. Some Sam's clubs do sell organinc milk and yogurt. It depends where you live. A lot of places say for fruit, if u eat the skin, make it organic, if you peel it you don't have to get organic because you peel the outer layer. You do still ingest some of the chemicals but not all! I had it so easy in Virginia Beach getting organics in WV it is really hard! I have just found a place called Frankferd Farms out of Ohio that you can order from and a delivery truck will bring it to a drop off site in your area! I am not sure where everyone lives but they do deliver to PA, WV, and OH.

I do not have much experience with ADD/ADHD and organics but, I have read that removing dyes and processed foods does help.

I love this topic!!

Greenmother
09-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Hell I just get excited when I see ketsup and stuff that contains NO High Fructose Corn Syrup. YEA!

Nothing against corn growers, but that shit has to go. Save it for animal feed! And Corn on the Cob or corn meal. I see those stupid commercials saying "Your body can't tell the difference between Corn Syrup and Cane Sugar or any kind of sugar"... WHATEVER!

My body can!

HFCS gives me headaches, affects my digestion, makes me feel like crap in a microwave, and causes me to feel very bloated. And if I feed it to my children, they act like the devil's spawn.

So it's cane sugar and honey in this household all the way.

Lak001
09-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Yesterday I was looking to buy some Jam or preserves. Everyone those had High fructose corn syrup. I was really frustrated. We have been very consciously avoiding hfcs, but they can be very sneaky. When you least expect it in foods where they don't have the rights to be in :)