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Cheryl
07-16-2011, 04:50 PM
10 y/o daughter almost finished 4th grade is really strugling with spelling and phonics.

She was taught phonics in private school and I taught them to her when we first HS for Kindy so I know she has been exposed to the concept. However, she writes like she is CLUELESS to any phonetic rule! I'm talking, "Huked on fonics werked for me" kind of thing.

HELP! what I am I doing wrong? I don't know where to start? from the beginning? with her now 5 y/o Kindy sister? Is there a more grown up approach to phonics? There isn't much for 5th grade that I can find. She likes to read however reads very slow or at least *MUCH* slower than her siblings.

Martha
07-16-2011, 08:33 PM
What are you currently using for phonics and spelling?
How are you correcting her written work and what are you using for composition?

Cheryl
07-16-2011, 08:44 PM
sorry, I should have put what we are using. Seton English, phonics and spelling. It goes over everything but she truly does not grasp it. Its more of a memorization for her instead of an understanding of it.

farrarwilliams
07-16-2011, 09:22 PM
I'm not familiar with Seton English, but there are phonics programs that are recommended or designed for older kids. I know Saxon Phonics has a program for older kids specifically. And I've heard people mention others, so they're out there. I also think understanding phonics for reading and understanding it for spelling are two different things that seem like they should be connected - and are for some kids - but aren't for others. I know a lot of people don't like memorization for reading because it's associated with sight words, but I don't think there's any research about that being negative for spelling. In other words, it's fine to memorize spelling words and if she can do that, go forth and memorize - and I would really recommend the word lists in Spelling Plus (and their method) because they use the most common words in the English language as their basis, meaning that she would be able to write with more fluency if she memorized them. The parts of our brain we use for reading just aren't the same as for writing so just misspelling words doesn't necessarily mean that a lack of phonics understanding is what's wrong with her reading - there are *lots* of things other than phonics that can slow down a kid's reading. Of course, phonics is a likely culprit. Do you have her read aloud? Do you switch off pages and read together?

Martha
07-16-2011, 10:51 PM
Seton English is very good.
The phonics and spelling are... Not my favorites. ;)
I was in the same situation with my dd when she was in 2nd grade. (However, keep in mind I've taught these lower grades 4 times by the time I got to her. So I think her lacking in phonics/spelling was more noticeable to me as I was comparing her abilities to her brothers.)

I would (and did) switch to Explode the Code phonics and Natural Speller.

EtC phonics goes at a very good pace. One lesson per day is several pages long, but it isn't stressful. I really dislike some of the silly stories, but they aren't anti-catholic or whatever.

Composition assignments must be edited here. It's just part of the writing process. It does not mean it wasn't good or that they suck at it. The best writers in the world have editors and have to rewrite. (It is really important I remind my kids of this to avoid them getting discouraged, feeling like failures, or taking critique too personal.).

I would pull spelling errors from writing assignments and add them to the following week's natural speller list. (About 20 words per week total.). I agree with farra about spelling btw. My kids seem to either just get it or not. Those who do, don't seem to need a separate spelling program. Those who don't have done well with Natural Speller.

Doing the above consistently for my dd's brought her writing and reading skills up significantly within a year.

Oh. If it matters, I use primary and intermediate language lessons from hillside instead of Seton. Seton is a great English worktext and program, but I can't afford it, have done it enough to not need the hand holding, and could not care less about diagramming. (I know - the horror! ;) ). After doing Seton English for several years and grade levels, I know what to do and expect at this point.

Cheryl
07-18-2011, 08:25 AM
second time someone has said to use Natural speller. THANKS MARTHA! ( how is that new luvbug?)

Thanks Farra! Saxon has always been on my "list" I appriciate all your advice :-)

off to RR to check prices!! thanks again ladies! thanks a million!!!

Cheryl
07-18-2011, 08:29 AM
oh and Martha, we aren't using Seton for the next grade, except for religion and the readers for the littles. too $$$ for all of them and I kinda figured out what works for them (except for phonics :-) we were all so bored with it. Doing much more FUN stuff this year after seeing friends curriculum. Now, how I'm going to fit in all this "fun" stuff is beyond me. Hopefully, the days will get longer next year. that is what I'm hoping anyway

Martha
07-18-2011, 09:00 AM
All my kids so far have loved the readers.
Only my boys have enjoyed the English workbooks for some reason. My girl completely did not enjoy it at all. Just yesterday one of the older boys was reminiscing about his favorite two seton English workbooks. I think it's the theme story style that runs through them. The boys liked it. The girl? Meh. Bored with it.

Baby boy is saping m last brain cells by having a nursing/no sleep marathon. (yawn)
But he sure is cute. :)

coloradoalice
07-18-2011, 02:10 PM
I struggled a lot with phonics and spelling my whole life. I don't know why, I'm not sure what if anything was missed. I'd just like to encourage you that it's really ok if she's not a natural speller. There comes a point where leaning how to use a dictionary and spell correct on the computer may be your best options. Going back to the beginning may help but I have to be perfectly honest and say that didn't help me, I was an elementary teacher before home schooling and I've read and done the rules again and again but I still really struggle to find the rhyme and reason in it. I would die without spell check. I don't always know how to spell something but then I can recognize when it's right, if that makes any sense. I am a great reader and always have been. It's funny how the spelling of words never took when I could read and understand way beyond grade level.

Anyway, not sure if that helps. Just want to encourage you not to despair. (See, I couldn't spell despair there, spell check to the rescue!)

Cheryl
07-19-2011, 08:16 AM
I struggled a lot with phonics and spelling my whole life. I don't know why, I'm not sure what if anything was missed. I'd just like to encourage you that it's really ok if she's not a natural speller. There comes a point where leaning how to use a dictionary and spell correct on the computer may be your best options. Going back to the beginning may help but I have to be perfectly honest and say that didn't help me, I was an elementary teacher before home schooling and I've read and done the rules again and again but I still really struggle to find the rhyme and reason in it. I would die without spell check. I don't always know how to spell something but then I can recognize when it's right, if that makes any sense. I am a great reader and always have been. It's funny how the spelling of words never took when I could read and understand way beyond grade level.

Anyway, not sure if that helps. Just want to encourage you not to despair. (See, I couldn't spell despair there, spell check to the rescue!)

oh thank you! that DOES help!!!!

naturegirl7
07-20-2011, 03:24 AM
We are starting All About Spelling. It is a phonics based spelling program. My DS is strongly opposed to learning or practicing phonics but is a fantastic reader. I want him to learn to spell and to sound things out though - so this program is awesome! It sneaks in all the phonics rules while learning spelling. He is enjoying it, I see it finally clicking, and the magnets are just plain fun.

Staysee34
07-26-2011, 09:21 AM
We are starting All About Spelling. It is a phonics based spelling program. My DS is strongly opposed to learning or practicing phonics but is a fantastic reader. I want him to learn to spell and to sound things out though - so this program is awesome! It sneaks in all the phonics rules while learning spelling. He is enjoying it, I see it finally clicking, and the magnets are just plain fun.

This is what we will be using this year as well. It is a wonderful program. I've also added Spelling City and 20 Week by Week Word Family Packets to allow us to really focus and to add variety because offering the same lesson in various ways is very beneficial to my kids. We are also using the controlled text readers that go with AAS so they can truly apply what they've learned in a real world way. Since neither of my children are strong spellers or readers, I'm hoping this approach will help pull things together for them.