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Dutchbabiesx2
06-27-2011, 02:39 AM
interesting article about raising children, brings up questions about how anxiety and depression can occur in adults who were raised in 'good' homes. a bit long, but maybe you ponder the information as I did.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/8555/

Stella M
06-27-2011, 04:42 AM
Our culture just loves to blame parents ( mothers ) doesn't it ? Damned if you do parent, damned if you neglect.

"Lizzie" probably needs to take her 'empty spot' over to a homeless shelter or a woman's refuge and get over it by helping out in the truly damaged world.

Interesting :)

jessica14
06-27-2011, 06:43 AM
Well, I didn't read the whole article, but I have had both depression and anxiety and need to be on meds for the anxiety. For me, although I have some issues with my parents, its probably genetic. My mom had anxiety and I learned later so did my maternal grandfather. I told Mom in the last year that I need a plan to get out of any place I am-an escape route if you will. She said my grandfather did that too. My Dad no doubt had social anxiety which I definately have too. So while I think that my parents did some things that probably made the situation worse, I think its roots ar gentetic.

My DS, on the other hand is being raised well by us (I hope anyway!), but he was a Chinese orphan for the first 2.5 years of his life and that will bring on some things that we will need to work on.

Having been in therapy over the years I learned that you don't (or shouldn't anyway) blame parents but look how their behavior effects you and then change it if you don't like it. I don't think my therapist has ever recreated something and told me something different. I think its more of a connect the dots kind of thing-you do this because you heard that. Now move on and change it. It's a subtle difference and I don't know if I'm explaining it well.

farrarwilliams
06-27-2011, 08:49 AM
I was struck too, Melissa, by the basic premise being presented that mothers are to blame. But even the critiques I've read seem to suggest the same thing though more subtly - parents should dote on their kids because it will raise healthy adults. Hm.

I think we do over-coddle kids these days... but I think it's probably harder on the adults than the kids. And I'm not convinced it causes more damage than a lack of some life skills.

dbmamaz
06-27-2011, 09:00 AM
This was posted to my attachment parenting group, where most reacted very negatively to it. The line I remember once (which I think was from the video) was that all kids should occasionally wish they lived in a different family. I thought that was funny -- and not hard to achieve.

But that doesn't count as a long article in my book!

Accidental Homeschooler
06-27-2011, 12:32 PM
I have friends who teach at the University here and they do get calls (sometimes angry) from parents trying to get better grades for their kids.

Did anyone see the article in the NY times yesterday about shyness and introversion? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/opinion/sunday/26shyness.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=introversion&st=cse As a parent of an introvert I found it pretty interesting.

Dutchbabiesx2
06-27-2011, 12:44 PM
Farrar and Melissa,
I got out of the article that it is parents not just mothers, fathers also set a tone, and if they allow a mother to coddle, than it is also a father problem. I did not totally agree with the article, I have pondered the information for I have tried to give praise for good behavior and I can not! I do point things out, but the praise for doing everyday things is something that I find a bit like acting, and at least one of my children can pick up on that easily!

So, hope others will respond, it is just interesting that this perspective is from children who attended PS, how will HS parenting style affect our kids later? are will in the same boat that it is a crap shoot and no style is better than another . . .but as we all know we do what we feel works for our family!

Eileen
06-27-2011, 01:18 PM
I am an introverted person and a shy person (which people often conflate but they are different animals). I don't suffer too much from my shyness because I'm an introvert, but there are times when I have a hard time with it. Any kind of situation where I am required to be around more than a few people who I don't know is a bit of a problem for me. Not enough that I can't manage it (which I guess would be SA), but it is unpleasant for me. I'm recommending that article on facebook, thanks for posting.

As for the other stuff, I have to believe that kids are pretty resilient. If, through our best efforts to the contrary, we manage to screw up our kids anyway... well, that's just their cross to bear, I guess. I have issues that are related to stuff my parents did or didn't do, but they loved me and had the best intentions, and that's all we can really ask. Everyone screws up - they do too much, not enough, or not well - and most people find their ways of dealing. Some don't, and that's sad, but you can't lay that all on their parents.

Accidental Homeschooler
06-27-2011, 01:47 PM
Based on the Atlantic article I should have left my older dd in junior high. I rescued her really and that is what it felt like(not in a bad way to me). Should we have left her there? I am sure there are people who know us and care about her who think we should have. Is hsing protecting her from learning how cope with challenge and difficulty? That is what made me think of the article from the Times about introversion. I think ps is a much less comfortable place if you are an introvert. There was even mention in the article of children having their desks in pods and the emphasis on teamwork. I often thought that if my dd could have just had fifteen or twenty minutes a a couple times a day in junior high for solitude it would have been much less draining and stressful for her.

I am also an introvert, and while I usually don't feel shy, I really need more solitude in my life than someone who would describe themself as an extrovert. If I don't get it I feel pretty cranky and negative. This is one of the challenges of hsing for me. I end up staying up too late to get it and then am really tired. It is a problem I am going to have to solve.

I also feel sometimes that I just can't take in another bit of parenting advice/information from another expert.

Jess24
06-27-2011, 01:59 PM
Having been in therapy over the years I learned that you don't (or shouldn't anyway) blame parents but look how their behavior effects you and then change it if you don't like it. I don't think my therapist has ever recreated something and told me something different. I think its more of a connect the dots kind of thing-you do this because you heard that. Now move on and change it. It's a subtle difference and I don't know if I'm explaining it well.

It is so funny that this post has come up. I was just thinking about this very subject yesterday as I was suffering from what appears to be a hormone induced panic attack.

Jessica- that does make total sense. I just started couseling for anxiety and it has been a lot of background info in the beginning. We are almost through that so I do understand what your are refering to. My therapist even said that this isn't designed to bash anyone or dwell on the past, but to start to see patterns in what causes the anxiety, recognize those patterns quickly and have solutions ready to alter the behavior. I'm not sure I would like a therapist that blames my parents for all my woes. I do know that anxiety does run in families, but the whole nurture vs. nature question is hard to answer here. Am I anxious 'cuz my mom was anxious? I am hoping to break the nurture pattern here with my kids by learning how to fix it for myself. There is a difference in acknowleding that our parents contribute to who we are and blaming them for all our woes in life. Blame doesn't fix anything. For me hormones are not helping (nature), since I am starting to realize that at the ripe old age of 39, mine are swinging wildly.

That being said, I have a fund for my kids' therapy when they get older. You know with homeschooling and all. ;)

Hampchick
06-27-2011, 02:09 PM
I read up to the video and then watched the video; I'll try to read the rest later but I think what they are discussing in the video really makes sense. Not that I want my kids to feel like they're in the wrong family necessarily but the whole bit about praise and self-esteem. Alfie Kohn has a great article about "good job" (http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm) that's worth a read.

I definitely think there are good and bad ways to be a parent. All evidence points to an authoritarian style as being very negative for children while overly permissive not much better. Authoritarian = parents always win. permissive = children always win. In between those extremes I agree there are varying approaches that can be used. Probably best for each parent to figure out what fits for them and their children and stick with it as much as possible than to read "expert" after expert and waffle.

I do think that parents that do too much for their kids are doing them a disservice, but I can't go so far as to play the blame game. Raising kids is WAY to complex to put blame on any singular factor (under normal/non-abusive circumstances)

Hampchick
06-27-2011, 02:14 PM
I am an introverted person and a shy person (which people often conflate but they are different animals). I don't suffer too much from my shyness because I'm an introvert, but there are times when I have a hard time with it.

I didn't read the article linked yet but this was my first thought upon reading the title. For many many years I thought I was just shy, but now I realize that I'm on the extreme end of introverted and that they are two very different things. I probably was a somewhat shy child, but growing up I enjoyed being alone just as I do today. I've learned to be less shy, but I still need tons of time alone to feel right with the world.

Theresa Holland Ryder
06-27-2011, 02:53 PM
I still need tons of time alone to feel right with the world.

Me too. My husband is also an introvert and we have a saying about each other that sounds like a mortal insult to non-introverts: "Being with you is as nice as being alone!" ;-D

Theresa Holland Ryder
06-27-2011, 03:05 PM
There were some pretty snappy comments over on Metafilter about this article and the Introvert one too. :)
http://www.metafilter.com/104956/How-to-Land-your-Kid-in-Therapy

Stella M
06-27-2011, 10:56 PM
Selling the upper middle class their anxiety back to them.


That's the comment from the link I like.

Accidental Homeschooler
06-28-2011, 08:38 AM
Selling the upper middle class their anxiety back to them.


That's the comment from the link I like.

That is what it did for me. When I read a "what's wrong with parents today" article I first think of examples that support it and then how it applies to me (I am generally doing something wrong). I think will blame the ps system, of which I am a product, for my lack of critical thinking skills.

Jess24
06-28-2011, 12:18 PM
I start to wonder how much of the problem is attributed to the fact that we constantly get told, if you do "X" you will be happy, if buy "Y" you will be happy. If we parent the right way we will be happy and our kids will turn out perfectly. Everything is an if, if, if.

"We’re confusing our own needs with our kids’ needs and calling it good parenting,”
This was the comment that hit home with me except I would change needs to wants. It is so much fun for me to buy them little trinkets and watch them get excited. Unfortunately, now a trip to target comes with some expectation of getting some new toy and I am desperately trying to break that habbit. I think we live in a very instant gratification society, I know I struggle with that all the time.

I always wonder how early settlers would take these kinds of articles. Of course, they were probably too busy raising perfect settler children to read them. Amazing the the human race has survived this long with out how to articles and books.

Hampchick
06-28-2011, 03:37 PM
I finally had time to read the rest of the article. I essentially agree with their take on both happiness and self esteem.

When we had barely met, my future husband once asked me if I was happy with my life. I answered that I wasn't trying to be happy, that I wanted to be content. For me joy/happiness and sadness are two ends of an emotional spectrum that are difficult to maintain. There are happy moments and sad moments but for the rest I just want to be content. This pretty much sums up how I still feel. If we are set up to think that life is all about being happy (whatever that means) all the time then we are certainly going to feel lacking like "Lizzie" in the article.

Kylie
06-28-2011, 06:11 PM
I finally had time to read the rest of the article. I essentially agree with their take on both happiness and self esteem.

When we had barely met, my future husband once asked me if I was happy with my life. I answered that I wasn't trying to be happy, that I wanted to be content. For me joy/happiness and sadness are two ends of an emotional spectrum that are difficult to maintain. There are happy moments and sad moments but for the rest I just want to be content. This pretty much sums up how I still feel. If we are set up to think that life is all about being happy (whatever that means) all the time then we are certainly going to feel lacking like "Lizzie" in the article.

I'd have to agree with you Hampchick. Working towards a life filled with 100% is asking for doom and gloom. No one can be happy all the time. But content, yes and really isn't contentment happiness?

So much pressure on everyone these days, the poor old parents cop a bucket full. We all have issues with our parents and how we were parented, some more than others. However has a fully grown adult I think one needs to take responsibility for their own lives and leave their poor parents alone to get on with theirs.

Not only do you have the daily struggles of raising children, but then you have to deal with your adult child in therapy because you did such a bad job.....geeez why on earth would anyone have kids if thats what your in for lol!!

I definitely think kids are molly cottled these days and helicopter parenting has been taken to the extremes.

As a homeschooling parent I am very aware of this, my kids are quite protected simply by how we have chosen to educate. I need to always keep myself in check that I am not over protecting them from everything else too.

Raising kids needs to find some middle ground. I am very glad we're beyond the children are seen and not heard era. But currently we are in the, "children rule the roost" era and that's not such a great place to be in either.

Theresa Holland Ryder
06-28-2011, 09:16 PM
I definitely think kids are molly cottled these days and helicopter parenting has been taken to the extremes.

As a homeschooling parent I am very aware of this, my kids are quite protected simply by how we have chosen to educate. I need to always keep myself in check that I am not over protecting them from everything else too.

Not too long ago I had to talk a friend down from taking their son to a psychiatrist because he had butchered his bangs with craft scissors. They're good parents and usually not overly freaked out over every little thing like this, but they live in a community that seems to breed needless angst and worry. Almost every kid I know of has done this. I really have a hard time framing it as early self-harm. I think usually it's "look scissors! look hair!" snip-snip-snip "uh-oh." Finally the kid said that his bangs were in his eyes and he just thought he could DIY them. Sigh.

Hampchick
06-28-2011, 09:28 PM
Oh geesh! I waited for the day my kids took scissors to their hair. Knew they'd do it, just wondered when.

Kylie
06-29-2011, 02:11 AM
Oh far out, surely 80% of kids cut their own hair or a friends at some stage.