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fbfamily111
04-08-2011, 01:02 PM
Here's a link to an article about TN allowing science teachers to challenge evolution. The House passed it 70-28, I mean come on!

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/04/bill-allowing-teachers-to-challenge.html

MarkInMD
04-08-2011, 04:11 PM
I'll grrrrrr right along with you.

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
04-08-2011, 04:28 PM
As I said in another thread, if teachers can do that then scientists should be allowed to go to Sunday School classes and challenge Creationism.

hockeymom
04-08-2011, 04:34 PM
As I said in another thread, if teachers can do that then scientists should be allowed to go to Sunday School classes and challenge Creationism.

:)

(10 characters)

archibael
04-08-2011, 06:00 PM
I actually think there's a significant place for questioning evolution-- it can lead to good, in-depth reinforcement of the reasoning behind evolution, as well as discussion of microbiological evidence of present day evolution (antibiotic resistant bacteria, etc.).

However, in these cases, I'm pretty sure that's not what's going to happen. You'll get teachers with their own agendas filling kids' heads with mushy "challenges" based on a misinterpretation of current evolutionary theory or on a blatant misuse of statistical theory.

Greenmother
04-08-2011, 06:51 PM
This isn't about discussion archibael. I used to work with religious minorities in schools from time to time. What I saw was indoctrination being introduced by teachers and administrators in some fashion, while encouraging students who belong to said faith group as enforcers. Anyone who stands up in those schools and challenges the [local] dominant social paradigm will be painting a target on themselves. Some kids might do okay with that, but many more end up being bullied. In some cases, those children attempt or succeed in committing suicide. It's very sad because it is such an opportunistic and manipulative way to use children to force conformity without getting the adult's hands dirty.

Kirsji
04-08-2011, 07:11 PM
As I said in another thread, if teachers can do that then scientists should be allowed to go to Sunday School classes and challenge Creationism.

When my husband and I were "church-goers", we put our oldest son, then about 9 years old, in Sunday School. He challenged creationism in class and was asked to leave. We were told that he might be better off in the main room with us, that he just did not "fit in" with the class.

We never went back to church after that. LOL!

Kirsji
04-08-2011, 07:17 PM
I would not want my children taught anything about creationism in a public school. That is a religious subject and, as such, should be left up to the church to defend.

That being said, I do teach my children what other people believe as far as creationism is concerned, but I also let them know that their dad and I believe otherwise and we have great discussions about the topic. If they were in a public school, being taught the creationist aspect, they would only have THAT side to think about the rest of the day and may not remember to bring it up with us later.

If they cannot teach Religion in school, they should not be allowed to teach creationism.

dbmamaz
04-08-2011, 07:23 PM
Someone had posted an article about early civilizations being really angry when god created the world 6,000 years ago, creating plants and animals they were already cultivating. I read some of it to Orion, who also found it funny, so then Raven wanted to hear it. I read it, and then explained that some people think the earth was made "here" on our time line. (we have 3 levels of timeline in our puter room: the top is the timeline of the big bang, the next is the evolution timeline from charlies playhouse, and the bottom is approx written history, from 1,000 bce to present). Raven excitedly ran to the wall and pointed to the sticker of earth on our upper timeline and gleefullly said, And we know it was created there!

I definitely got a kick out of that!

although, I must admit, when I'm walking the kids out in the neighborhood, and asking Raven to tell his brother about the book we read about Joan of Arc, and I ask him who he thought the voices were, he said "What we dont believe in! God!" equally gleefully . . .and loud! I kinda would hate to offend neighbors I barely know . . . . sigh . . .

Greenmother
04-08-2011, 09:04 PM
6000 years ago is the approximate age of a the first recorded religious hymn in the West. The daughter of Sargon the Great, Enheduanna a priestess of the Moon God Shamash wrote a religious hymn to that god in the fertile crescent. She was Akkadian. The thought that any reasonable human being {whether they believe in a form of creationism or not} who has any experience in just simple archaeology accepting that the world is *only 6000 years old is ridiculous. Stone Henge is older than that.

And in reality, if you read the Book of Genesis, and then apply the Young Earth paradigm to it's passages, then what those folks are saying is that the *Universe, the Cosmos is only 6 thousand years old. Which is preposterous. Just ignoring dinosaurs--and only taking into account astronomy, geology, and archeology--those three subjects blow holes in that idea that would allow the passage of Mac Trucks side by side.

archibael
04-08-2011, 11:26 PM
Actually, the universe was created last Tuesday, and all of the evidence which suggests otherwise, including your own memories, is just God's way of testing your faith.

Greenmother
04-08-2011, 11:33 PM
That would explain my raging headache and my nagging sense of time loss.

MarkInMD
04-09-2011, 12:25 AM
Actually, the universe was created last Tuesday, and all of the evidence which suggests otherwise, including your own memories, is just God's way of testing your faith.

Funny! But those are always my favorite arguments: "It's a test of your faith." How the heck do you know, people?

At the church I grew up in, a kid who was a few years younger than me asked his mother how Noah got the dinosaurs on the ark. She answered, "God shrunk them." I think that may have been the point where I started saying, "Wait a minute, here..."

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
04-09-2011, 10:03 AM
Actually, the universe was created last Tuesday, and all of the evidence which suggests otherwise, including your own memories, is just God's way of testing your faith.

Then how did there get to be so much dirty laundry in my house? Huh? HUH?

And does this mean I don't owe a week's worth of library fines because the universe wasn't even created yet when I supposedly checked out these books?

archibael
04-09-2011, 11:58 AM
You don't owe the fines, but the library computers think you do, so you're screwed.

fbfamily111
04-10-2011, 09:06 AM
Actually, the universe was created last Tuesday, and all of the evidence which suggests otherwise, including your own memories, is just God's way of testing your faith.

I grew up in an extremely religious( Young Earth ) environment. My father's argument againt the evidence of say dinosaurs, was that God can do anything, that God literally placed bones of non-existant things in the ground to "test our faith". My mother was a bit more practical (Old Earth creationist). They have since moderated their beliefs, but I always remember thinking, why would I want to be the "child" of a god who tries to trick me?

archibael
04-10-2011, 10:45 AM
Oh, I'm aware of the similarities. The Last Tuesdayist "religion" isn't something I made up. It's been a reducio ad absudum argument against the "God put the bones there to eff with you" aspect of Young Earth Creationism for decades.

albeto
04-10-2011, 12:09 PM
Sumerians Look on in Confusion as God Creates World (http://www.theonion.com/articles/sumerians-look-on-in-confusion-as-god-creates-worl,2879/)

dbmamaz
04-10-2011, 12:15 PM
Yes, Albeto, that's the articel I was talking about. And i'm proud to say I managed to type this while still being able to see your disgusting, creepy bug picture. Its hard, tho, i am feeling a tad nauseated. no joke.

albeto
04-10-2011, 02:16 PM
Yes, Albeto, that's the articel I was talking about. And i'm proud to say I managed to type this while still being able to see your disgusting, creepy bug picture. Its hard, tho, i am feeling a tad nauseated. no joke.

Aw! Your courage made me smile. I hope this avatar is more tolerable.

Greenmother
04-10-2011, 02:24 PM
I had never read that onion article. That was hilarious! Thank you for sharing!

dbmamaz
04-10-2011, 02:31 PM
Yes, thank you!! Its not moving, its not an ant, and it has gears!!

archibael
04-11-2011, 02:00 PM
I will admit the first couple of times I read one of his posts I smacked the screen to try to kill it.

dbmamaz
04-11-2011, 03:39 PM
I think its a her?

archibael
04-11-2011, 03:51 PM
Oops. Apologies albeto.

albeto
04-11-2011, 10:13 PM
I will admit the first couple of times I read one of his posts I smacked the screen to try to kill it.

I thought it was funny but if it causes a quick, instinctive panic in someone, that's not funny at all. So it's gone.


I think its a her?

I thought you meant the bug!

:rolleyes:


Oops. Apologies albeto.

No worries!

Yep, a "her." "albeto" is a compilation of my kids' names.