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Lou
04-07-2011, 07:05 PM
my daughter will color to her heart's content when it's something she wants to do...however, if I have a 'project' for school that requires coloring...she flat out refuses to color.

anyone have tips on convincing her it's HER idea to color the projects? I have tried to avoid coloring projects lately, but so many preschool-kindergarten projects involve coloring (color by number, color by shape, color this, color that)

hockeymom
04-07-2011, 07:21 PM
What if you just leave it out for her to "discover"? You can act completely surprised by her fabulous finds.

On the other hand, is it so important that she color when she doesn't want to? Is she really missing out on anything? Can you do the "assignments" a different way (sort the numbers/shapes/etc instead of coloring in worksheets)?

Cheryl
04-07-2011, 07:47 PM
I kinda agree with hockey mom. does it really matter? I understand if it is a discipline issue but you don't want to force "school" especially at that age. only my very humble opinion.


my kindy girl hates to color. we just "put an X on" or "underline" whatever is needed, instead of "color the flower yellow and the clown red" I know she understands, she just isn't artsy fartsy. My 3 y/o doen't really like to color if I tell her to color something I pick. She only likes to color if her older siblings are.

Greenmother
04-07-2011, 07:56 PM
Maybe she should draw her own pictures and then color them. You could even dress it up with collage or markers or stickers.

farrarwilliams
04-07-2011, 07:57 PM
We never did much coloring for preK and K so I don't think it's essential for schooling by any means. I wouldn't force it if she's not into it. I understand it's really good for small motor skills development, but if she does it on her own, then that's fixed for you. Is it too unhelpful to just say, do something else?

dbmamaz
04-07-2011, 08:29 PM
(a good reason not to do much pre-K and K curriculum, perhaps . . . )

farrarwilliams
04-07-2011, 08:44 PM
Yeah, we didn't do a curriculum or preK and only very limited curricula for K... so maybe that's why I sort of scratched my head at the idea that it's a needed part of school. ;)

dbmamaz
04-07-2011, 08:46 PM
We didnt even do much cutting until this year. Raven was rather traumatized by crafty projects in public school K, but this year I am making him cut out the pictures for our time line - just roughly cut out from the page, then Orion and I trim them down. It was a big ordeal w crying the first time, but he's cool with it now.

And really, how vital a skill is cutting paper? I mean, if you dont like crafts, especailly.

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
04-07-2011, 08:59 PM
My son has never wanted to do coloring sheets related to school work. He's just not interested. I'm not even going to bother with the activities for SOTW or any other curriculum that has coloring and cutting. My daughter eats that stuff up though. It's just a matter of personality... which requires us parents to get creative.

farrarwilliams
04-07-2011, 09:43 PM
Cara, I have often wondered about that with the coloring and the cutting. We do some, but not much. I mean, how much of these small motor skills are honed simply with age instead of with specific activities. I guess it is a little embarrassing to be 10 years old an literally unable to cut in a straight line or color in the lines when you want to... but does that actually happen to kids who don't have specific delays or haven't had exposure to regular other small motor tasks like handwriting?

Riceball_Mommy
04-07-2011, 10:20 PM
My daughter also will color when it's a picture she's drawing or she has gotten a coloring book out (and she doesn't get the coloring book out a lot). She also tells me "I like coloring out the lines." So last year there was a lot of coloring in the pre-k curriculum so I just let her do a scribble of the color to show she understood the concept but really didn't push the coloring. I did though get a Kumon coloring workbook and we worked through that slowly because with that I made her color in every space completely and encouraged her to stay inside the lines. This year for K she is doing a bit better with the coloring but with some of the work I resort to the scribbles because it's really not worth fighting over completely filling something in, though now she does opt to color in more on her own.

Teri
04-08-2011, 10:28 AM
I have crayons, scissors, paints and everything out where the kids can get them whenever they want. We DID have a few unplanned haircuts in their younger years. LOL I have never used anything that required coloring pages, I don't guess.
When there is a project that involves coloring, I let them plan it out. Will you use markers, crayons, colored pencils? Do you want big paper, colored paper? My kids really like art projects and will usually give it their full attention. My youngest is a lousy colorer though. She does NOT want to spend time filling colors in between prescribed lines. No biggie.

dbmamaz
04-08-2011, 10:35 AM
When I was a kid, art was my most hated subject. all through school. Ok, i liked crafts like paper weaving and macrame. But i would have taken math class over art any day. every day.

Greenmother
04-08-2011, 10:44 AM
My kids love chalk drawing on our driveway. --It may be that your kid just isn't into that right now. You can always put it away and get it out a few weeks or months from now and see what happens. They go through phases in all sorts of things where they love this or that and then hate it or at least won't touch it. Its probably just one of those things.

belacqua
04-08-2011, 12:33 PM
Teri, your "unplanned haircuts" reference just made me snort in a most unladylike manner!

My kid never colored. Never. If he had a worksheet that asked him to, say, color the even numbers red and the odd numbers yellow, he'd make just the most perfunctory slash with his crayon to show he knew the answer. I'm pretty sure it didn't have any lasting detrimental effects (ok, his handwriting isn't copperplate, but I suspect that would have happened anyway).

Hampchick
04-08-2011, 01:18 PM
My kids don't color much either. My older son will color his history pockets when I read aloud, but wouldn't choose to color on his own. My younger son sometimes wants to color the pictures in handwriting without tears, sometimes wants me to color with him and sometimes has no interest. When we do our math book he won't color but likes to circle everything. I don't think it's worth pushing or making a power struggle out of.

Teri
04-08-2011, 05:58 PM
In the case of a math coloring thing, I think you are looking at something different. A math curriculum isn't going to care whether the child is coloring nicely or not. It's looking for sequencing, following instructions, matching...math skills. So, if your child gets the concept of color the circle red and the square green (because that is identifying shapes and following instructions), I don't think that is a big deal at all.

Lou
04-08-2011, 10:40 PM
I agree with all of you on not forcing lessons & skipping the lessons that are causing a negative vibe. I do avoid it as much as possible, but there are PLENTY of "projects" SHE wants to do that require coloring. She just doesn't want to do the coloring part and in some cases that IS the whole project, so I try to explain to her to do something different, but she is caught in her own delema of wanting to do the project but not wanting to color. I tell her to skip it and she says it needs to be colored, so I tell her to color it, she says no she thinks I should color it for her so she can continue on with the rest of the project. I know she will just need to learn to either color it or move on. Just thought I'd ask if anyone had clever ideas on convincing her to enjoy that aspect...LOL :D

She pretty much wants to and does all of the same things her brother does (he's doing mostly grade 1 stuff) I am contemplating having her go to preschool two days a week in the fall so she'll get more "preschoolie" stuff and less grade 1 stuff. I was talking about it with another homeschooling friend and the hubby today. What should we do with her??? She will sit at the table and do handwriting practice, addition, subtraction, place value, money, telling time, sight words, word families, and other phonics work. She WANTS to do what her big brother is doing, but should she really be doing it? I do the F.I.A.R. with them, but that is easily toned down to her level.

dbmamaz
04-08-2011, 10:46 PM
She will sit at the table and do handwriting practice, addition, subtraction, place value, money, telling time, sight words, word families, and other phonics work. She WANTS to do what her big brother is doing, but should she really be doing it? I do the F.I.A.R. with them, but that is easily toned down to her level.
Ok, I am a firm believer in letting the child set the pace as much as possible, and the parent being there to create structure and find materials and help them discover. The reason most curriculum have preschoolers coloring is because, developmentally, that is what they are ready for. If she is developmentally ready and insterested in doing more advanced work . . . what are your reasons for trying to make her do preschool work?

farrarwilliams
04-08-2011, 10:56 PM
I always thought that was one of the benefits of doing FIAR - it's easy to include interested younger kids too. I just wouldn't offer her any coloring based projects. If she enjoys sitting there and doing the 1st grade level work then why stop her? Is she gifted? Like, at age 3 is she doing as good a job as your 5 yo ds? Or is she sort of doing it and sort of playing along to be as big as her brother?

Stella M
04-08-2011, 11:02 PM
Our whole kindergarten class got put on after school detention because our cutting out 'wasn't good enough.' I remember all the mamas peeping in the classroom window while we did our remedial cutting out :(

I

Hampchick
04-08-2011, 11:05 PM
Seriously Melissa? I'm sorry because that's so not funny but it's so ridiculous that I can't help but laugh.

dbmamaz
04-08-2011, 11:18 PM
ack! my 15 yo son still is traumatized because his 2nd grade teacher made his WHOLE CLASS be late for recess until he did his handwriting well enough . . . as if he wasnt already hated enough by the kids already . . . his handwriting still looks like a 3rd grader.

Hampchick
04-08-2011, 11:22 PM
Ugh, Cara that's horrible!

Lou
04-09-2011, 01:54 AM
These are the topics I was discussing with my friend and husband today...it was a 'what would be best for her' discussion. The outcome was allow her to do what she wants, but never force anything...however, a concern that came up was if we set out advanced work for her and she doesn't want to do it, is it ok to just say "ok, no biggie go play" or is that setting us up for her to think she can get out of work if she's not up for it later down the road???

I don't WANT her to color...it's not a deep desire of mine...just a curiousity on why does she love to color princesses, but will refuse to color anything else...and were there any clever ways to have her color something other then her beloved princesses? LOL But please don't worry about me forcing a coloring project on my daughter. It's not a big issue of mine. :)

As for her ability, no I do not think she is gifted! She does not do the work at the same level as my son. There is a possiblity our son is gifted, but we have had a bumpy 3 year ride in the school setting so we will see what happens when we are fully settled into our homeschooling and he realizes he's not going back to school. (right now a lot of character work is happening, he's finding his secure place again. Lots of emotions to process still for him.) Our family doctor has always thought he was gifted and bored in the traditional school setting...so we'll see once he's feeling a bit more settled.

Our daughter can write better then he can, but the school he was pulled from screwed with the writing (he wrote beautifully when he was 2 1/2...he started in school at 3 & the school discouraged a child that young from writting, said it wasn't natural, then when he was 5 they forced a different font then he knew and critized him for writing traditonal font) and my son is having to in a nutshell start over and retrain himself in that area. There is some emotional baggage that comes with writing now for him. :(

Our daughter does do basic addition & subtraction almost as well as he does, but when it comes to phonics & sight words, she understands what we are doing, but she isn't able to read words or identify sight words yet. She knows almost all of her letter sounds, but she has a LONG way before she is up to his speed there. She really is good with pre-K & K stuff. Pre-K & K is more suited for her. Therefore we contemplate if we are 'depriving' her by not having her do more preschoolie stuff.

I have purchased some curriculum that is from the same companies as the curriculum I have for my son, but at pre-k/K level so she can pull out HER WORK at the same time as he does, but is doing something more her level. It hasn't arrived yet, I'm excited to get it because I think it will make her feel important but not be more then she's truly ready for. I realized she can add, but she doesn't know all of her shapes! So I do at times think about 'what is she skipping and missing out on?' ???

WOW...rambling novel...sorry! LOL point is, I don't mind if my daughter doesn't want to color, was just curious and no I don't think she's gifted. I think she has always done everything her brother does and this is just one more thing. I might sounds "worried" in my post, but I'm a pretty relaxed schooler, so I think I might just not type my thoughts out very well. :/

Lou
04-09-2011, 01:56 AM
ack! my 15 yo son still is traumatized because his 2nd grade teacher made his WHOLE CLASS be late for recess until he did his handwriting well enough . . . as if he wasnt already hated enough by the kids already . . . his handwriting still looks like a 3rd grader.

that is terrible...I fear my son endured some writting issues...I'm hoping we pulled him soon enough to right the wrong. :(

dbmamaz
04-09-2011, 11:12 AM
I have to say, 3 yo girl who can do subtraction would most likely count as gifted. That is generally introduced in 1st or 2nd grade?

What I've found w my older son is that when we come to something where he is being held back because we missed something, we just cover it then. Its really not a problem. Just because there are curriculum created to do things in a certain order, that doesnt mean that is the RIGHT order, esp not for every kid. Someitmes you have to learn to trust your children more than you trust the creators of the curriculum.

One thing I did with my (extremely stubborn) son when he was 6 was something I picked up from an article about a highly successful alternative school. I would make a checklist with 6 possible things he could do for school for the day, and he could choose 3 of them. Being able to have that control, he was perfectly willing to do the things he chose. Of course, if he didnt choose any reading or math or whatever over a period of a week, I would discuss that with him. I would say that its important to do some of this too, so if he cant choose it every other day, we might have to make that an already-checked item. He was pretty reasonable.

So my point is, if your daughter does not want to do a certain worksheet, just offer other educational activities.

Another thing I read is that sometimes kids will alternate between doing work that is challenging for them, and then going back and doing easier work. Its like sometimes they need some down time to do things they've known for a long time - some time to just feel confident about what they are doing. and when they are ready, they will want to do the challenging stuff again.

Now, my older son is not so self-directed. He really needs me to keep him on a tight schedule, to procure the right material, and stay on top of him. My younger one is the one who seems to have a hunger for knowledge, but only at his pace. In the long run, I suspect that will get him very far.

farrarwilliams
04-09-2011, 07:39 PM
I'm also impressed if she can do subtraction and addition. It doesn't necessarily mean she's gifted, but that's pretty good. Also, if she has consistently readable handwriting and knows her letters from memory at age 3, that's also a bit advanced. I don't think it sets up a bad dynamic to let her do what she wants at this age. We have slowly ramped up our expectations with the kids (which are still pretty mellow as my kids are just in 1st grade!) but going from it's okay to not do something one year to it not being okay the next hasn't been a problem - I think it's about being gradual and about establishing a real educational trust - that your kids trust that you're asking important things of them and not giving them things that will be too hard, or busy work that will just waste their time.

That's rotten about your ds and writing. Something similar happened to me - I started with D'Nealian in private school where I always did exceptionally well in handwriting and then went to public school where they gave me D's and F's for my seriously beautiful D'Nealian script. But by then I was in 4th grade and self-aware enough to know what complete BS it was, though it really hurt my feelings and my desire to have nice handwriting went down the tube so I did indeed get a lot messier by middle school. After all, if they were just going to flunk me anyway, why bother?

Ah, school. And how it kills learning!

Lou
04-10-2011, 11:11 PM
I have to say, 3 yo girl who can do subtraction would most likely count as gifted. That is generally introduced in 1st or 2nd grade?

What I've found w my older son is that when we come to something where he is being held back because we missed something, we just cover it then. Its really not a problem. Just because there are curriculum created to do things in a certain order, that doesnt mean that is the RIGHT order, esp not for every kid. Someitmes you have to learn to trust your children more than you trust the creators of the curriculum. This is something I'm working on and suspect it will come with time (we've only been at this homeschooling bit since mid-Feb. :)

One thing I did with my (extremely stubborn) son when he was 6 was something I picked up from an article about a highly successful alternative school. I would make a checklist with 6 possible things he could do for school for the day, and he could choose 3 of them. Being able to have that control, he was perfectly willing to do the things he chose. Of course, if he didnt choose any reading or math or whatever over a period of a week, I would discuss that with him. I would say that its important to do some of this too, so if he cant choose it every other day, we might have to make that an already-checked item. He was pretty reasonable. I like this idea...both of my kiddos can be determined to do it THEIR way at times...and they do like to have choices of control. :)

So my point is, if your daughter does not want to do a certain worksheet, just offer other educational activities.

Another thing I read is that sometimes kids will alternate between doing work that is challenging for them, and then going back and doing easier work. Its like sometimes they need some down time to do things they've known for a long time - some time to just feel confident about what they are doing. and when they are ready, they will want to do the challenging stuff again.

Now, my older son is not so self-directed. He really needs me to keep him on a tight schedule, to procure the right material, and stay on top of him. My younger one is the one who seems to have a hunger for knowledge, but only at his pace. In the long run, I suspect that will get him very far.

Thanks for the great suggestions/reminders :)

Lou
04-10-2011, 11:33 PM
I'm also impressed if she can do subtraction and addition. for her, if she can't use her fingers (or mine) then she needs some sort of 'counter' where my son can do several of them in his mind now, but still needs counters on occasion...so she's doing it, but not really at the same level, she 'gets the concept' and I was going to do the singapore elementary math with her, but it was back ordered, so I just figured we have enough 'math workbooks' laying around she can mess around in while big bro is doing his math lessons...I did get her a cuisenaire rod collection and a math book with cuisenaire activities...so she can mess with that too during "math time" It doesn't necessarily mean she's gifted, but that's pretty good. Also, if she has consistently readable handwriting Her hand writing is pretty good, when she 'traces' she traces just about as good as I might do, but when she's writing on her own it's not that nice, however it is clear enough to read and another thing I noticed is she has never held the pencil wrong, it's always in the correct way...which my son also did before he started school, so I wonder if she'll 'forget' how to in the next year and I won't have the school to blame anymore or if she will continue to write well and hold the pencil well??? LOL time will tell. :) and knows her letters from memory at age 3, that's also a bit advanced. My son was reading at 2.5, new letters, sounds etc at 18 months and then poof forgot a lot of it all when he started school at 3 then at 4 started again and now is fairly consistant with his old classmates. So when my daughter didn't know the ABC song consistantly at 2.5 I realized just how different kids are! But she had a burst and is catching up on her own time...which is nice :) I don't think it sets up a bad dynamic to let her do what she wants at this age. We have slowly ramped up our expectations with the kids (which are still pretty mellow as my kids are just in 1st grade!) but going from it's okay to not do something one year to it not being okay the next hasn't been a problem - I think it's about being gradual and about establishing a real educational trust - that your kids trust that you're asking important things of them and not giving them things that will be too hard, or busy work that will just waste their time. thanks for that :) I have noticed in the past months that my son in particular is starting to realize when mom thinks it's important and not up for debate and when it's a flexible thing...I think the consistancy of being together all the time has allowed for this. However, when he was in school he would try and debate everything (literally EVERYTHING and with a really negative tude) because at school they had very inconsistant rules which got confusing for him. (was confusing for us when we tried to figure out what to tell him so there was 'home/school' team playing, yada yada yada)

That's rotten about your ds and writing. Something similar happened to me - I started with D'Nealian in private school where I always did exceptionally well in handwriting and then went to public school where they gave me D's and F's for my seriously beautiful D'Nealian script. he started with traditional at 2 years old and then when he was 3 they discouraged writing at school, then at age 4 they allowed for a little traditional writing, then at age 5 they insist on d'nealian...all at the same school...so the poor kid has had a rough go there. He wants to start all letters from the bottom up and anything that can be done on the left side he likes to do first...it's a bit messed up...you can read it when he's done and really that is what matters, but we want him to feel proud of his work and not bummed that it's messy looking But by then I was in 4th grade and self-aware enough to know what complete BS it was, though it really hurt my feelings and my desire to have nice handwriting went down the tube so I did indeed get a lot messier by middle school. After all, if they were just going to flunk me anyway, why bother? that's what happen to me with Math, I was gifted in math...loved it, was in special classes, then switched schools that didn't offer advanced math had to go back to a lower level math, ended up doing the same math for roughly 5 years in a row...sooo bored, dumbed down and gave up.

Ah, school. And how it kills learning! Homeschooling is so amazing and I can't believe everyone doesn't do it! It's hard for me to hear people say things like "I wish I could homeschool" when they find out I am....Or when they complain about the school system or the particular school their child is in...if you aren't happy, do something about it! Ugh...drives me nuts to bite my tongue, but I know my frustrated opinion won't change their mind...I have to wait for the right opening and best time to speak up...or just let them see over time that they could do it too! :)