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dottieanna29
04-03-2011, 11:45 AM
Yesterday DH took ds and dd to the playground. DS did a couple things that led to comments about "he would know better than to do that if he was in school." I disagree but I was trying to remember if this was still normal behaviour in a 5 year old or if he should have outgrown it by now.

First, another kid (about 8 or 9 years old so bigger than ds) was wearing a hat. DS grabbed his hat, laughing, threw it down the slide than jumped down after it (it was a long tube slide). DH made him give the hat back and go apologize for taking it. The other kid was yelling.

Second, some kids got ice cream from the IC truck that stopped at the park. DH didn't get ice cream for our kids (it was only about 40 degrees). Two of the kids that my kids were playing with were walking around playing while holding their ice cream. DS kept trying to get one kid to give him his ice cream and ended up dropping his ice cream on the ground. Dh told ds he couldnt' behave like that and they left the park.

DS does have mild issues - possibly mild Aspergers, definite sensory and social quirks. He is often corrected for these types of behaviors as they come up in playing with his sister or other children. I think school would just teach him how to hide it better from the teacher and possibly learn new things from the bullies.

dbmamaz
04-03-2011, 12:33 PM
I'm sorry, but saying 'he would know better if he was in school' is implying that teachers should teach your kids appropriate behavoir and parents shouldnt. If your son has some issues like that, your HUSBAND should have been proactively intervening when your son was being innapropriate - preferably BEFORE the ice cream fell on the ground. In school they learn behavoir because teachers remind them of what is appropriate. Parents are perfectly capable of doing that, too.

My kids definitely have issues, socail interaction does not come easy. If i see things going in the wrong direction, I will take them aside and talk about it and see if they can figure out how to act appropriately. If they keep acting out, trying to get negative attention from kids who are not wanting to play with them, then, yes, you leave.

Different kids will mature at different ages, but sending your kids to school so you dont have to teach them what is appropriate socail skills seems offensive to me. BUt maybe only because the schools were so comletely inept at that . . . the TEACHERS were just as likely to bully and lie as the kids. And just to clarfiy - only about 10% of the kids will bully and lie. It seems about the same w the teachers/administrators. Not that they are all bad. . .

So to summarize - i think your son's behavoir was in the realm of normal, BUT it is the parent's responsibility to teach morals and socail skills, such as 'dont beg for food' and 'that might have been funny for you, but it wasnt funny for him.'

dottieanna29
04-03-2011, 12:52 PM
Dh isn't the one who made the school comment.

Dh did intervene as soon as he saw what was happening but he didn't get there before the fall. He watches but doesn't hover when the kids are at the playground. He addressed it by talking to ds and leaving the park.

We do address behaviour as it occurs and have no intention of sending him to school. It's been 11 years since I've had a 5 year old and I'm trying to remember if this is typical behaviour or something that needs to be watched even closer.

MarkInMD
04-03-2011, 01:07 PM
Well, any stranger who would have told me he would know better if he was in school would've gotten an earful from me, I can tell you that.

I have volunteered in Tornado's Head Start class on occasion, made up of 4-5 year olds (he's 5 1/2 now but this is his second year in Head Start), and in that class you run the gamut of kids who are quite well-behaved (scarily so!) to absolute terrors. I blame neither parents nor schools, really. In addition to those outside influences, every kid comes with their own heredity and perhaps things like autism spectrum diagnoses (or suspicions of them), and many of those things are far less controllable. Maturity comes at different times for different kids. At age 5, I don't think I'd be as concerned about this kind of behavior as I would if he were 7 or 8. Of course, kids should still know what's acceptable and what's not, but it may not really sink in for another year or two. Keep working with him and he'll probably be okay.

dbmamaz
04-03-2011, 01:14 PM
Yeah, sorry if i was a bit harsh - i'm really cranky today. and also - even tho my son is bipolar and autistic, spending 7 years in public school made it worse. his socail skills have improved TREMENDOUSLY since I started watching him more and giving him more feedback, and got him away from the truamas inflicted on him in really, really good public schools. School does not teach socail skills. it really doesnt.

Teri
04-03-2011, 01:33 PM
I, personally, would not find it acceptable behavior for a five year old (actually, for any age).
Would I expect to have to correct it in a five year old....that is a little grayer, but I do not think so.
If the child has other issues, it may be more the "norm" for him, but it is definitely something that I would correct and would be working on.
I think your husband handled it the right way. I might have offered to make restitution for the fallen ice cream too.

Accidental Homeschooler
04-03-2011, 02:22 PM
I don't think what you describe is normal five year old behavior. But, as someone else already pointed out, they mature at different rates. I have a socially immature five year old and kindergarten made it worse. I think I have read the spirited child book 500 times and I am constantly having to tell myself "progress not perfection." It is hard when other parents (or grandparents!) are judgemental or critical. I also find it embarassing to have to deal with behavior more "typical" for a 3 year old. And my dd is big for her age so some of the stuff she does looks even worse to other people.

hockeymom
04-03-2011, 02:33 PM
I wouldn't worry about the behavior (obviously, it was discussed and dealt with) or about the comment (even though it must be hard). I certainly saw much, much worse behavior when I worked in my son's school when he was in K, like the Kindergartner who told me to f___off and flipped me off, or the k-er who told my son that something he had made suc_ed--right in front of me. The bullying, the tantrums, the screaming profanities from 5 year olds while the teachers just looked helplessly on and did nothing. You no doubt know your son is certainly not better off at ps, and I hope you don't let that awful and ignorant comment get to you.

teglene
04-03-2011, 02:54 PM
We do address behaviour as it occurs and have no intention of sending him to school. It's been 11 years since I've had a 5 year old and I'm trying to remember if this is typical behaviour or something that needs to be watched even closer.

I do not think this is typical behavior and I think you are correct in thinking you need to watch this closer. You are already suspecting Aspergers and "social quirks", and this fits right into that. it appears that DS has little regard for how his behavior impacts those around him, and at 5 they are usually starting to figure this out. This is very indicative of Aspergers. (BTW, my 9 yr old DS has Aspergers).

Would having him in school help? NO! If he has Aspergers, or is in some other way a bit outside of "normal", being around other kids will not make him "normal". No matter how much time I put my DDS with Aspergers with other kids, he is not going to become "normal". No matter how I parent, I can't make him not have Aspergers.

There is some really good info out there on helping kids with Aspergers or Aspergers-like behavior, social quirks if you will, learn how to act in social situations. We chose to enroll our son in "Social Thinking" classes, where he is in a small group of boys his age, and they use the Michelle Garcia Winner social skill curriculum. We do a lot of talking about how our behavior impacts those around us, and try and remember to praise him when he is considering others around him.

The thing with kids like this is they don't just pick these things up through day to day interactions like "normal" kids do. They need more direct instruction on how and why to act.

With good guidance from mom and dad he can learn, it just take a lot more effort!

AddlepatedMonkeyMama
04-03-2011, 04:18 PM
My son (newly seven and exact same issues as yours, Dorothy) can behave like this too, especially with groups of other boys. He likes the other kids, but gets totally worked up/over-stimulated/something! and behaves in ways that he would not otherwise. I have to watch him like a hawk at a playground. Sometimes he's great and sometimes he's a total pest, gets too rough, etc. We had to drop out of a science co-op because he was not playing well with the other boys and I just couldn't keep a close enough eye on him (after the "class" they went out to play in a one-acre backyard). I've learned that he just can't handle unstructured, outdoor play with a large group of friends--he just loses control. He does fine with one-on-one playdates and structured activities.


If they keep acting out, trying to get negative attention from kids who are not wanting to play with them, then, yes, you leave.

Yes, I have to teach my son how to approach kids he wants to play with. You can't run up to them swinging your imaginary lightsaber/casting Harry Potter spells/taunting them. We've done some roleplaying with this and we talk about again it on the way to the playground. I watch him closely and if he's doing something obnoxious I will discreetly and gently tell him to knock it off. If he doesn't, we leave.

I feel your pain. I've borne my share of playground humiliation from this child (I know, it's not about me!) and I'm debating whether or not to go to the homeschool park days this spring. Not that YOU need convincing, but I don't think he would be better off at school. Most teachers don't know how to teach social skills to high-functioning ASD kids. Most likely, they would be punished, ostricized, and miserable.

dottieanna29
04-03-2011, 04:30 PM
Thank you all for the replies. Quite a variety of opinions! Which I guess just shows, kids really do vary. I think part of his problem is he always seems to want to play with the older kids so, even outside of his quirks, they just aren't that interested in playing with a little kid if they have friends their own age there. He does seem to do slightly better with younger kids. We were back at a different park today and stupid ice cream truck showed up again. He behaved better but dh was right on top of him (bigger, more spread out park made this necessary anyway) especially when other kids had ice cream. He did play nicely with a little girl who seemed to find his behavior fine.

Now that Spring is coming (FINALLY!) we should be out at playgrounds more often but I'm going to have to really think about how often I want to go with groups. It's slighly less embarassing if we are around people we are unlikely to ever see again. :p

Dutchbabiesx2
04-03-2011, 05:29 PM
DS does have mild issues - possibly mild Aspergers, definite sensory and social quirks. He is often corrected for these types of behaviors as they come up in playing with his sister or other children. I think school would just teach him how to hide it better from the teacher and possibly learn new things from the bullies.

My son is 8 and has had these types of behaviors in public situations, he too has asynchronous development, academically very bright, socially- he too has taken caps as a way to 'play' with other kids. What we have learned is that he needs more modeling in new situations. When going to the park it is handy to give examples of appropriate play or how to ask others to play. This was very hard for me for I never wanted to guide my child's play, but we have found that it works and now that he has had some time to mature and we are good about giving him a few suggestions, free play is much more equal now. Our son's therapist suggest also when a situation goes bad to ask him what he was intending as the outcome and how it worked for him. Not a blame-you did something wrong- sort of thing, just lets see where we can do it differently next time.

Good luck, it is hard to be the mom on the playground who has the child who needs a more watchful eye, but it pays off for all of you!

Also, if he were in school it is possible that he would be called out or punished for his lack of social skills, which can create more stress and worse behaviors/symptoms that you see when he is home in a more compatible environment! But you'll never really know. We removed our son because PS did not deal well for this situation.

Miguels mommy
04-03-2011, 06:18 PM
Watch to see who he plays with well. Miguel plays well with girls about 2 years younger and boys about 2 years older that are non-competitive. However they have to come up with what to play.

Greenmother
04-03-2011, 06:41 PM
Sounds like a 5 yr old to me. Maybe the other parent was having a bad day, and took it out on you by suggesting something was wrong when really it was just one of those things.

farrarwilliams
04-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Obviously not good behavior. Obviously not desirable. Obviously needed to be stopped and corrected. But I disagree that it's atypical. My kids are a little older, and they aren't the type of kids to tease like that with the hat or pestering the ice cream eaters, but they absolutely had bad days a couple of years ago with behaviors that would have looked just as bad to a random observer. And they're kids who are often complimented on their behavior on better days. It seems like what you're saying is that your ds acts this way often, which may be some concern, though it sounds like you're on top of thinking about that. However, I think most 5 yos act like that or with other wild behaviors at least sometimes.

MarkInMD
04-03-2011, 08:30 PM
I think there's a complete misperception in a lot of people's eyes about what constitutes "normal" (certainly in the eyes of the person who made the comment about him being in school). People want "normal" to equal "well-behaved." They're not necessarily the same thing. "Normal" adults aren't always well-behaved every day of their lives. Why should we expect kids to be, especially younger ones?

This is not to say that I think a parent should just let nature take its course with minimal correction, if any (I have a friend who does this and it irritates the heck out of me), but I also wouldn't stand by while someone else decides what "normal" is for my kid. Their kid's normal and my kid's normal aren't going to be the same.

Accidental Homeschooler
04-03-2011, 08:58 PM
I think there's a complete misperception in a lot of people's eyes about what constitutes "normal" (certainly in the eyes of the person who made the comment about him being in school). People want "normal" to equal "well-behaved." They're not necessarily the same thing.

We also talk about "typical" behavior for a specific age, not universal behavior for a specific age. My dd is not typical in many ways, some positive and others really difficult for me as a parent. I have to focus on moving in a positive direction on all fronts. If I am doing that I feel like we are good and it doesn't matter to me so much what is "typical." But it is still really hard sometimes.

farrarwilliams
04-03-2011, 09:24 PM
Well said, Mark.

Batgirl
04-04-2011, 01:34 AM
Sorry, this is short because I'm pooped, and it sounds like you know, but this sounds like what Batman does, and he's on the spectrum. Since he's my oldest, though, I'm not entirely sure what "normal" is. I think your DH was being completely reasonable and dad-like by not hovering but he may have to as social problems with spectrum kids in group situations can escalate so quickly. I have playground horror stories you wouldn't believe (well, you probably would)! Sigh.

albeto
04-04-2011, 11:36 AM
Yesterday DH took ds and dd to the playground. DS did a couple things that led to comments about "he would know better than to do that if he was in school." I disagree but I was trying to remember if this was still normal behaviour in a 5 year old or if he should have outgrown it by now.

First, another kid (about 8 or 9 years old so bigger than ds) was wearing a hat. DS grabbed his hat, laughing, threw it down the slide than jumped down after it (it was a long tube slide). DH made him give the hat back and go apologize for taking it. The other kid was yelling.

Second, some kids got ice cream from the IC truck that stopped at the park. DH didn't get ice cream for our kids (it was only about 40 degrees). Two of the kids that my kids were playing with were walking around playing while holding their ice cream. DS kept trying to get one kid to give him his ice cream and ended up dropping his ice cream on the ground. Dh told ds he couldnt' behave like that and they left the park.

DS does have mild issues - possibly mild Aspergers, definite sensory and social quirks. He is often corrected for these types of behaviors as they come up in playing with his sister or other children. I think school would just teach him how to hide it better from the teacher and possibly learn new things from the bullies.

You might be on to something with the Asperger's and it's worth checking out some resources to help you help him learn to solve his problems in a socially appropriate way. First he has to identify his problem (he wants attention, or he wants ice cream), then he has to figure out a socially appropriate solution (asking). He also needs to learn how to deal with "no" for an answer. Social stories helped us a lot at this age.

As far as school, it really does depend on so many variables. In general, I tend to think kids with AS being raised at home with parents who are in tune to their unique needs is a better fit than at school. Big surprise there, I'm sure. ;)

fbfamily111
04-04-2011, 05:20 PM
Very normal behavior for a 5 year old, especially if he's on the spectrum. Being HS'ed has nothing to do with it. It sounds like he was just trying to get the older childrens attention, so they would play with him. He may just take longer to learn social cues, you of course help him by observing other peoples interactions and "critique" them later.