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Pilgrim
03-24-2011, 10:28 AM
This is a brief article from Politico: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51874.html

It discusses the link between homeschoolers in Iowa and the Tea Party. Many TP leaders have expressed their support of homeschooling, namely to escape from "government education" and its socialized ways.

Here are a few lines:



Based on the event here, the home-school movement looks like a logical extension for tea party activists looking to take their arguments into domestic policy.

Several speakers railed against “government education” and spoke fondly of the “liberty” afforded parents and children who are not enrolled in public schools.



What do you all think? While I see PS as inefficient and stifling, I've never viewed it from a paranoid point of view or thought about it as some sort of socialist or liberal machine.

I'm getting the sense that there are two distinct groups of homeschoolers, and they couldn't be farther apart from one another on the political spectrum. But maybe that's just the caffeine talking. :p

dottieanna29
03-24-2011, 11:35 AM
I've seen a lot of talk about public school indoctrination from religious homeschoolers. They are homeschooling to prevent their kids from getting the "atheist agenda" and protect them from all that tolerance stuff. Slightly different from the political idea but similar.

I homeschool because it's best for my kids based on their learning styles and quirks. I have one who has attended public school her whole life and will be graduating next year. I have no problem with the public schools, I just don't think they're the best for all kids.

jettyspagetti
03-24-2011, 11:44 AM
I homeschool because my son just learns better when he isn't surrounded by other kids and because I hate the teach to the test environment. However, my sister also homeschools and she is doing it to avoid government intervention in her children's lives. She and her husband are strict evangelicals who truely believe that the government was going to vaccinate their children without their permission while they attend public school and brainwash them into being socialist liberals. It was pretty funny when my brother in law realized I was homeschooling and suggested that my sister do it as well but for completely opposite reasons. There are quite a few homeschoolers in our town that started homeschooling to avoid what they see as government intervention. They see much of the science and social studies as being skewed against Christians while I see so much dumbed down to avoid upsetting the Christian majority. It makes me sad to see so many children brought up with intolerance and ignorance.

Accidental Homeschooler
03-24-2011, 12:30 PM
Interesting link, especially as I live in Iowa. I hs because my kids weren't doing well emotionally in school. Our district has a hs support program and the people I have met and had time to talk to have mostly had similar reasons, more related to how their individual kids were doing in school than a larger political motivation. I have some extended family who are hsing and big Ron Paul supporters (they were probably at that rally!) but the family did not really start hsing until their oldest child had problems with neg peer group in school. He has some serious substance abuse issues. So they hs'ed with the younger kids, who are now grown and doing some hsing also.

Ariadne
03-24-2011, 12:32 PM
That makes me think that more secular home schoolers need to be speaking up.

It seems that people want to get a handle on us, and they think that we're all the same.

farrarwilliams
03-24-2011, 12:35 PM
Yes and no. No, I don't think the schools are some sort of socialist conspiracy. Honestly, if they were, that might be better. It couldn't make them worse.:rolleyes:

But I do think that public schools are a political pawn. When you look at all the nonsense about Texas school boards and history textbooks, it's enough to make one go crazy. I don't want my children's education to be subject to the political whims of any school board. And I do think that government schools have an interest in conformity and very little interest in encouraging kids to question the system - after all, they *are* the system. So in those ways, it's somewhere on my list. But that's sort of the opposite of a socialist conspiracy. More like a conservative, maintaining the status quo one.

amygrimis
03-24-2011, 02:21 PM
It is amazing to me (and scary) that education isn't put on a pedestal and made to be untouchable by politics, religion, etc. I know it isn't and really opening my eyes to how education sort of sails along the whim of political agenda and uber conservatism has made me re-evaluate my goals for this next year of homeschooling. I agree with Natalie that secular hs'ers should be louder, but how?!

To answer the OP question, we will hs because it's what works best for us, not because I'm afraid of our name being "in the system". Granted, we spent nearly 8 years in the Army, so I suppose that option is out for us anyway LOL

SueEllen Grieves-Curl
03-24-2011, 02:26 PM
This just goes back to why do you HS. Everyone does this for different reasons.
Us we chose to for many.
PS has failed to teach and keep children safe
Their idea of fixing things is to just spend more money
My children do not really fit into their mold of how you should learn

SolsticeDreamer
03-24-2011, 03:20 PM
I homeschool for many reasons. First, I love being with my children, it fits our lifestyle, and most importantly, my children are receiving a better, more individualized education that they would at school. I am not afraid of the schools; one of my dds attended ps for one semester in high school. She came out just fine, undamaged, but she preferred homeschooling. I support public education but am very thankful I have, and am able to act upon, a different choice.

Most of the local homeschoolers I know homeschool for religious reasons; they want to protect their children from being indoctrinated with secular humanism. Come to think of it, many of them align with Tea Party politics, too.

I honestly think there are more secular homeschoolers than we are aware of. We're just not particular noisy and aggressive.

BrendaE
03-24-2011, 03:32 PM
I began home schooling because I can do a better job educationally for my child than the public school. This remains true all the way through high school. DD has access to better everything. I did not, for the very first time, follow the law this year. I did not register her as a home schooler at the high school. She will not be taking the state tests, and I will not be handing anyone a portfolio of her body of work. I just got fed up with the government sticking its nose in something that is absolutely NONE of their business. I will not participate anymore. Period.

Teri
03-24-2011, 05:16 PM
Well, I think PS is inefficient and stifling and I hate the fact that politicians dictate what is in textbooks (we are in Texas), but I view it more as a conservative infiltration than a liberal one.
I think it would be better if it were more socialist. :p

higgledypiggledy
03-24-2011, 05:38 PM
We like the Artemis Fowl book series. If any of you are familiar with it, I think I'll go put on my tinfoil hat now.

Marmalade
03-24-2011, 05:43 PM
That makes me think that more secular home schoolers need to be speaking up.

It seems that people want to get a handle on us, and they think that we're all the same.

I had this same feeling when i read the OP. if the tea party is in the news for homeschooling then even more people are going to think that all homeschoolers are doing to escape the government.

To answer the original question-No-we don't homeschool to escape government intervention-but I'm perfectly happy not being intervened by the government while I'm homeschooling. KWIM?

Stella M
03-24-2011, 05:48 PM
No. I don't have a 'thing' about government. I homeschool because I like teaching my kids and to get away from school, not the government. Personally, I have no patience with the h/s'ers in Australia, especially the religious ones, who carry on like pork chops over big, bad government. Even the Bible tells its followers to obey the law of the land. Education is the government's business as far as I'm concerned.

I'm at blood boiling point with tea party types. It's travelled over here now - anti-women, anti-govt placard waving idiots. So Pilgrim, no. I don't think it's the caffeine. I think there really are two very distinct types of h/s'ers. And I am most definitely not in the paranoid about government camp. Our govt may be incompetent at times but it is not malignant.

When i say 'idiots', I'm referring to a particular event in Australia in the past few days NOT anyone here NOR anyone here's views, which I respect even if I disagree with.

wife&mommy
03-24-2011, 07:34 PM
Nope, not why I homeschool but I guess I can see their point.

fedelm
03-24-2011, 09:50 PM
I guess you could say I homeschool in part to avoid "government intervention." The biggest impetus for me to homeschool is NCLB.

MarkInMD
03-24-2011, 11:09 PM
I guess you could say I homeschool in part to avoid "government intervention." The biggest impetus for me to homeschool is NCLB.

In this sense, yes, absolutely that's one of the reasons we don't like public school. But I'm mentally torn sometimes because when it comes to this issue, I find myself on the opposite side of the political spectrum from where I usually sit on social questions (I'm unashamedly a social liberal). I don't think the Democrats' plans are measurably better or worse than what Republicans come up with. It's all about test test test grade grade grade measure measure measure. I hate that.

However, it wasn't our initial reason to homeschool. We sensed some problems on the horizon with Hurricane's increasing inability to relate to his peers, who were beginning to isolate him. Didn't want that happening to him like it happened to my brother 30-odd years ago. Now that we've been out of the system somewhat and will be fully as of next year when Tornado is home all day, I've grown increasingly disdainful of government programs of most any stripe that purport to improve the quality of our kids' education. They're all Band-Aids on a hemorrhage.

I am not a tea partier, though.

farrarwilliams
03-24-2011, 11:46 PM
I think one can believe the government should do certain things, and do them well, but also believe in the right of people to opt out of those things and do them themselves. I believe the government should provide basic health care for all, but I also believe that individual patients and doctors should have the right to opt out of that system and create their own with their own money. I know that to a certain brand of liberalism the idea of opting out of a government program intended for the good of all is anathema, but I've never subscribed to that - especially not on a national or federal level. The point of providing any government service, be it trash pickup or public schools shouldn't be to outlaw the right of individuals to haul their own trash or educate their own kids.

MarkInMD
03-24-2011, 11:55 PM
That's pretty much where I stand, too. Thank you for reading my mind.

schwartzkari
03-25-2011, 12:30 AM
I think one can believe the government should do certain things, and do them well, but also believe in the right of people to opt out of those things and do them themselves. I believe the government should provide basic health care for all, but I also believe that individual patients and doctors should have the right to opt out of that system and create their own with their own money. I know that to a certain brand of liberalism the idea of opting out of a government program intended for the good of all is anathema, but I've never subscribed to that - especially not on a national or federal level. The point of providing any government service, be it trash pickup or public schools shouldn't be to outlaw the right of individuals to haul their own trash or educate their own kids.

*standing up and applauding* You definitely have a way with words Farrar. This is exactly how I feel, I just can't put it into words as well as you! :)

MarkInMD
03-25-2011, 05:18 AM
Other than that, the only "intervention" I'm trying to avoid is the liberal use of corporal punishment in our local schools. My dd might act up enough to get it. Then I might literally go to jail for hitting that same adult right back, as soon as I got to the school. Perhaps not the best lesson in peaceful resistance, but I would go apesh*t if some adult hit my kids with a piece of wood.

Seriously?

Wow, if that happened around here, the lawsuits, they would be a-flyin'. I didn't honestly know that was still legal anywhere. I'd have never even tried to have my kids in the system in a place like that.

Wilma
03-25-2011, 08:10 AM
I don't homeschool to necessarily avoid gov't intervention the way they put it. But one of my problems with public schools I believe is government created. The curriculum is cookie cutter, there is no latitude for communities to adjust things to their individual needs, teachers are bogged down with so many programs and forms that they have little time to actually teach, everything is centralized, and the teaching is dictated by those tests. IMO, more than anything, those tests have made our schools an assembly line and have left little time for the teachers to instill some sort of personal touch in what they do.

kewb22
03-25-2011, 08:38 AM
I homeschool because it is what my kids needed. I do know a fair amount of homeschoolers who believe in THE BIG GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY. The schools are a government institution designed to churn out worker bees. They are not handing their children over to a g-dless government institution to raise them and indoctrinate them with the liberal agenda. The whole school model needs to be trashed and started over because it is no good for any kid.

I will now don my tinfoil hat and tell you my thoughts on the big conspiracy. Schools are a political tool, a buzzword in the elections. I believe they are populated by a fair amount of teachers who care and want to do what is best for the kids in their care. I believe their hands are tied in many ways. I believe that there are many children who thrive in school and are wildly successful. There is also a lot of children who do not fit the mold and struggle all the years they attend. It is a broken model. All the focus on tests as has eliminated true education. For all the talk of wanting critical thinkers, independent ideas, and creativity they don't really want it. They want docile children who do not question authority and think for themselves otherwise they wouldn't want to medicate just about everyone. I do believe there are children with a medical condition called ADHD. I do not believe every child who is medicated needs to be. They say they want parental involvement-what they really mean is they want acccess to my checkbook not my thoughts on partnering with them to best educate my children. What school was when I attended to what it is now is so different I don't even recognize it.

88keys
03-25-2011, 12:39 PM
Well, I think PS is inefficient and stifling and I hate the fact that politicians dictate what is in textbooks (we are in Texas :p

Interesting point - and Texas politicians are actually dictating to a large degree what is in the textbooks of all the schools in the nation, since the textbook publishers are all trying to get the Texas contract.

farrarwilliams
03-25-2011, 08:00 PM
The Supreme Court specifically has said that corporal punishment is allowed in schools (though the last time they considered it was the 80's). In the decade after they said that, a huge number of states banned it themselves, but in states that did not, it's still sometimes used. It had just gone out in NC when I moved there in 5th grade, IIRC and it was probably in response to that case. I remember one teacher bemoaning that she had to do afterschool detention because, "it was so much easier when you could just smack them on the butt and send them home." (!!!)

That's one of those red state blue state things I'm guessing. I mean, I *know* that to be true, but like Mark, it continues to shock me. People would go NUTS here if that happened. Actually, the issue of corporal punishment (by parents, not schools) was the most contentious issue to ever be discussed on our preschool homeschool listserv and the whole thing basically boiled down to an argument between people who didn't spank but didn't think it was always child abuse and people who thought that the people who wouldn't condemn it as child abuse were no better than child abusers themselves. In other words - moderate liberals versus extreme liberals. What a pain in the neck helping moderate *that* was.

dbmamaz
03-25-2011, 08:22 PM
LOL Farrar . . thats great! I actually get shunned in my natural/attachment parenting group for admitting to using time-outs! Well, thats changing as more of them have kids over the age of two and have a second child lol

farrarwilliams
03-25-2011, 10:40 PM
Yeah, totally agreed. I would never hit my kids. I'll stay out of it if other people are using spanking with their kids, but in general I think it's wrong. But if the GOVERNMENT allowed someone to hit my kids... oh my. There would be no way to mitigate my insanity.

wife&mommy
03-25-2011, 10:43 PM
We don't spank either so someone else doing it would NOT sit well with me at all. I can't even comprehend it!

Wilma
03-25-2011, 11:00 PM
You're kidding, right? They don't still spank in schools.

dottieanna29
03-26-2011, 10:18 AM
Wow, the more I read about the things that are allowed, and common, in some of the more conservative, fundamentalist states the gladder I am that I live here in the middle of going-to-hell-godless-heathens land.

Jeni
03-26-2011, 12:19 PM
Corporal punishment is used in 18 districts (out of 115) here in NC.

Ariadne
03-26-2011, 12:40 PM
LOL Farrar . . thats great! I actually get shunned in my natural/attachment parenting group for admitting to using time-outs! Well, thats changing as more of them have kids over the age of two and have a second child lolOh no doubt! It happens to all of us.

I did my best parenting before I had children, though. It has gone downhill ever since, with each successive child.

farrarwilliams
03-26-2011, 01:29 PM
See, when my kids were about 2.5 yo, this guy I worked with who was a little older - he had teenagers and a younger kid - came up to me and said, "So, you seem to treat them like your fifth child," and I took that as a compliment. :D

Laina
03-26-2011, 02:59 PM
Oh no doubt! It happens to all of us.

I did my best parenting before I had children, though. It has gone downhill ever since, with each successive child.

I so owe my brother and sister-in-law an apology for the judgments I made when their boys were still wearing diapers well into their threes and eating only junk food. Now I'm the one with a non-potty-trained, picky eater three-year-old. I got what I deserved. (But I still do judge all the junk food a little. Cookies for breakfast? Come on :)

Cheryl
03-26-2011, 03:35 PM
Seriously?

Wow, if that happened around here, the lawsuits, they would be a-flyin'. I didn't honestly know that was still legal anywhere. I'd have never even tried to have my kids in the system in a place like that.

at the kids private Catholic school there was the paddle. You were called before it happened and it had to be something REALLY, REALLY bad. Plus there were warnings before it would happen too. Even suspentions. I never knew a kid that was paddled. in our home you better hope that all you got was a paddle from the pricipal if you were THAT bad!!!! thankfully we have good kids and was never put in that position to decide something like that.

I have known a kid or two that should have been paddled in their lives.............

Cheryl
03-26-2011, 03:44 PM
question

for all of you that are anti-spanking, how many kids do you have?

wife&mommy
03-26-2011, 04:26 PM
question

for all of you that are anti-spanking, how many kids do you have?

I have 2 kids.

farrarwilliams
03-26-2011, 04:47 PM
I have two kids, but I have to say that unlike some of the parenting choices that I've had that have fallen by the wayside when practicalities arose, this is a core belief of mine so if the implication is that if I had ten kids I would spank them just for expediency's sake or because I had wised up to the understanding that it's just better, then I sort of resent that. I've never seen anything to suggest that large households spank more, for one thing. In our household, we try not to be heavy with rules, but I do see parenting in terms of negotiables and non-negotiables - many things that I would rather have otherwise are negotiable (amounts of sweets and screens that I don't like, changing curricula that I would rather use, making messes when I wish they would clean up, whining when I wish they would ask nicely...) but violence is never negotiable and I extend that to myself as well.

farrarwilliams
03-26-2011, 04:53 PM
Okay, I was curious about this question - do larger families spank more? The answer is no. They spank less.

This (http://www.slate.com/id/2075217/)is an older article from Slate, but it clearly says they spank less. When I thought about it, I thought that maybe it would be that larger families spank more - not because they have to in order to maintain discipline, but because many people choose to have larger families for religious reasons and there is often a bunch of nonsense in some Christian communities in favor of spanking and physically based discipline in general (TTUAC, anyone?). But apparently not so.

Cheryl
03-26-2011, 05:21 PM
uhhhhhhh, I guess i should have expalined myself better.................. Since public and in our case private school *did* spank and most public schools are over crowded, I was wondering if becuase of the overcrowding they had to spank to control all those different kids. I never said it was right OR that i even spanked! I was just curious. I never really looked into WHY schools chose to spank in the first place.

I WAS JUST WONDERING! IF schools were more like homeschools where the average family has 2-3 kids there isn't a need for a paddle becuase each kid gets the attention they need. we have 6 kids (so far) and even the Duggars who have 20 kids don't spank becuase, what I think, is becuase they homeschool and are able to love each child.

sheesh. touchy. my comment was meant to be a pro-homeschool post.

Cheryl
03-26-2011, 05:54 PM
You NEVER "have" to spank a kid. NEVER, no matter how many kids are in a school. That's a false choice - spank or no discipline at all.

I never said I spanked! I was just wondering! it was just a question! I NEVER SAID SPANKING WAS RIGHT or WRONG!!!! never!! I WAS JUST curious! and my question still is why did spanking in schools start in the first place? and i never said I agreed with spanking at the school my kids went too either!! I never knew a kid that was paddled! I don't even think the pricipal ever did paddle a kid! it was just a form I remember signing when they went!

BrendaE
03-26-2011, 06:13 PM
Wow.. what a hot issue! Everyone take a breath!

Its probably a great idea to end posting to this thread if the current topic continues. There is no point, No one is going to win and many people will be upset with each other for reasons real or presumed slights etc.

to change the specific topic ...


All of the testing that goes on IS govt. intervention. THe NCLB is the worst thing that has ever happened to public schools in America. So, looking back in reflection.. it actually IS one of the many reasons I chose to CONTINUE home school. It wasnt one of the starting reasons. I didnt realize it shouldnt BE that way in the beginning of my journey. NOW .. it is a very strong reason though.

Wilma
03-26-2011, 06:19 PM
Agreeing with Brenda here. Let's get back on subject. Controversial subjects rarely translate well into forum discussions.:)

Yes, I do find the testing a huge intrusion. I'm sure( okay, I hope) in intention was noble, but it has failed, IMO, in execution.

Cheryl
03-26-2011, 06:30 PM
NCLB is ridiculous! most of my family are teachers from elementary to college. The stories they tell...........smart kids do not get bumped up because they need their score on the EOG test. just ridiculous!!!

dbmamaz
03-26-2011, 07:05 PM
Just to add - i'm fairly certain that spanking started in schools when schools first started, and spanking was much more widely accepted a form of punishment in this country. The question is more why are they STILL spanking in school.

And Cheryl, even before I saw your question, your comment that you'd known some kids who should have been paddled made me afraid to read the rest of the thread . . .that alone is an inflammatory comment here.

BrendaE
03-26-2011, 07:14 PM
Please please .. change the subject already! Let it Goooooooooo We are not children and we do have the ability to just leave it alone.

NCLB was a bad fix to an already degrading situation.

It was the turning point in USA educational downfall. IMHO anyway

Cheryl
03-26-2011, 07:25 PM
Just to add - i'm fairly certain that spanking started in schools when schools first started, and spanking was much more widely accepted a form of punishment in this country. The question is more why are they STILL spanking in school.

And Cheryl, even before I saw your question, your comment that you'd known some kids who should have been paddled made me afraid to read the rest of the thread . . .that alone is an inflammatory comment here.

k, I promise no more after this.........

ok, I see how that looked. I was actually talking about myself! lol, I was an AWFUL kid!!!!!! I should have been beat, but it was just kinda a joke.

I am very sarcastic. very. my yankee humor is obvioulsy not appriciated at least when I'm talking about spanking. lol. what about beating Glen Beck? or a conservative bible thumping republican? should they be bent over a knee? I AM ONLY KIDDING!!! not beating anyone or putting anyone over my knee

my mom was a public school teacher back in the 60's and 70's, I will ask her if they spanked in her school. crazy. Her school was very over crowded even back then

Stella M
03-26-2011, 07:28 PM
To the tune of Here We Go Round The Mulberry Bush

I stayed away from the spanking thread,
the spanking thread, the spanking thread.
I stayed away from the spanking thread,
I'm learning self-control!

dbmamaz
03-26-2011, 07:28 PM
See, that makes me really glad we continued - I'm glad you said that, it makes much more sense that way.

BrendaE
03-26-2011, 07:30 PM
ok then....

Teri
03-26-2011, 07:58 PM
Texas still uses corporal punishment.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/16/110513/ban-on-corporal-punishment-in.html
I graduated from high school in the mid 80s and it was VERY common place then. It wasn't unusual for a girl to be sent to the vice-principal's office and get a paddling while alone in the office with him.
I was never a recipient, personally, however.

In Catholic school in the 70s, the nuns would walk around with a ruler in their hands and rap knuckles at our school.

Fiddler
03-26-2011, 09:25 PM
We like the Artemis Fowl book series. If any of you are familiar with it, I think I'll go put on my tinfoil hat now.

Where's the like button? :)