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albeto
03-23-2011, 11:44 AM
My daughter has expressive speech delay (that was the term I was told years ago by a SLP). She can comprehend everything that goes into her head, but she has moderate trouble expressing new ideas. At 6 yo her questions sounded like "Um, when we....uh...on the plane...um....so how....Grandma....never mind." It was her way of asking how long would our plane ride to Grandma's take. At age 13 she's far more capable than this, but has trouble explaining enough detail to really illustrate what she's thinking if it's a complex or novel idea. She's a voracious reader and I've just been letting her tell me about what she's reading to help her with this skill, but is there anything else someone can think of to help her work on this? Peppering her for details will of course make her feel put on the spot and uncomfortable and I can understand why. She's very frustrated by her lack of communication skills.

dbmamaz
03-23-2011, 06:57 PM
i dont know, but i have to say . . . your avatar CREEPS me out . . i HATE ants . . .

lynne
03-23-2011, 07:31 PM
My son is 6. He has receptive/expressive language disorder and he also has a tough time retelling a story, but his K teacher said he is improving. Sometimes when he is struggling to get the details out, I recast it the correct way for him and have him repeat it back, or sometimes even write it down for him so he can get used to the correct language format. I think you should keep doing what you're doing but if it's stressing her out, back off and give her a break then try again later. Practicing back and forth simple conversations are probably helpful practice too, like board games or card games. Oh, and you could also have her draw her description of the story and then explain it. Having a visual to work with may help.

Ariadne
03-23-2011, 09:28 PM
i dont know, but i have to say . . . your avatar CREEPS me out . . i HATE ants . . .Her husband is a bug guy. :D

Albeto, my son has that, too. He's always telling me that he understands but just can't talk about it. It doesn't seem to bother him as much as it's bothering your daughter, though. Hope you figure something out.

albeto
03-24-2011, 02:18 PM
Her husband is a bug guy. :D

One of his friend's research papers was featured in a creationist website. I hope he shares on FCT. :rolleyes:


Albeto, my son has that, too. He's always telling me that he understands but just can't talk about it. It doesn't seem to bother him as much as it's bothering your daughter, though. Hope you figure something out.

Thanks. It bothers her when we bump into a potential friend at the Farmer's Market and she's frozen with fear and can't even say Hi. This, the same girl who came to movie night a few weeks ago and they had a blast. Spontaneous, unexpected conversations, or more complex conversations seem to elude her and that's taken a toll on her self-esteem.

I'm shamelessly bumping this in hopes higgledypiggledy sees this.

dbmamaz
03-24-2011, 03:32 PM
Have you tried practicing/ role-playing these kinds of meetings? give her a script and pretend you are someone she just ran in to? having memorized things to say and practiced them might give her some confidence

higgledypiggledy
03-24-2011, 05:36 PM
Okay, I've seen it. First, my very big sympathy and wishes for your daughter to find a method of communication that works for her. I don't research on expressive speech delay as a disorder, so I am don't have fabulous information that is just pouring out of my brain cells. I do have a few questions to help me clarify so I can wonder off and find people who do have good information and are focusing their research on treating this particular problem. What I can tell you is that this is a hardwiring problem. Whew, thank goodness. So as hard as it may be to convey to your daughter, this is not a deficit in intelligence and anyone who treats her as though it is does have a deficit in their knowledge base. That also might help you when you wonder if there was anything you could have done to prevent it. You gave a specific communication example from age six, but now at thirteen what does a typical question or response sound like. Is it primarily a misordering of words or leaving out key connecting words? Not necessarily only conjuctions but the prepositions that show relationship between words, articles etc... English is repleat with little words that influence meaning that many other languages avoid with the use of word endings. Master those relationship/connecting/emphasis words might require different strategies that other expressive issues involving the meaty nouns and verbs of a sentence. Does your daughter still use lots of filler uhms, ahs while she tries to get the thought into verbal form? When asked does she say she has the language/words of the thought in her head but it doesn't get from the brain to the mouth OR does she say she has an idea not expressed in words and then can't find the words for the idea? That last bit may sound weird but some people say they think in terms of colors, feelings, musical sequences, visual images. What is the native language of her brain might be a better way of phrasing the question. Are you already working with a speech pathologist/therapist? What therapies have helped/hindered in the past? I always hate those pat answers like, just speak more slowly yadadyadayada... Not at all helpful to a girl (unusual and so particularly interesting on both a biological and social/emotional level) who is socialized and conditioned to create a space for herself in female hierarchy using verbal skills. I'll spend sometime throwing a few questions to folks working more specifically in this area. As I mostly study how the leap is made from spoken literacy to the written literacy and full lingual mastery I don't know as much about why some brains struggle to get out all the glorious stuff they have inside. Good Luck and if you have some information that answers my questions but don't want hanging out there on the web send me a private message and I'll put out feelers. I'll also check back in on this thread to see if someone else has some great info that keeps me from wondering down too many rabbit holes.

albeto
03-24-2011, 10:53 PM
Okay, I've seen it. First, my very big sympathy and wishes for your daughter to find a method of communication that works for her. I don't research on expressive speech delay as a disorder, so I am don't have fabulous information that is just pouring out of my brain cells.

Knowing the nature and mechanics of how speech develops is a vast improvement over the alternate advice I've heard. "Just give it time, I knew someone like that when I was a kid and he turned out fine."



I do have a few questions to help me clarify so I can wonder off and find people who do have good information and are focusing their research on treating this particular problem. What I can tell you is that this is a hardwiring problem. Whew, thank goodness. So as hard as it may be to convey to your daughter, this is not a deficit in intelligence and anyone who treats her as though it is does have a deficit in their knowledge base. That also might help you when you wonder if there was anything you could have done to prevent it.

My oldest son has an autistic spectrum disorder and pragmatic languages was one of our first successful interventions. I've suspected there was something similar wrt language processing for her, but to a much milder extent. That's where their similarities end, imo.


You gave a specific communication example from age six, but now at thirteen what does a typical question or response sound like. Is it primarily a misordering of words or leaving out key connecting words? Not necessarily only conjuctions but the prepositions that show relationship between words, articles etc... English is repleat with little words that influence meaning that many other languages avoid with the use of word endings. Master those relationship/connecting/emphasis words might require different strategies that other expressive issues involving the meaty nouns and verbs of a sentence.

As an example, she told me about a cartoon the other week that had her in stitches. In one cartoon, as she told me, the first strip showed a bug with one normal arm and one huge robotic arm with a missile. The next strip showed the same thing but with a price tag on it. The third strip showed a prosthetic arm and the last strip showed a jump rope and a catcher's mitt.

Here (http://www.bugcomic.com/comics/2010-09-07-Mostly-Armless.gif) is the strip.

You can see the difference between what she explains as the second strip ("the same thing" = "the same arm on both sides" vs. "the same robotic as just mentioned"). It's probably not the best example, but it's this kind of thing - words used really don't convey the gist of what she's meaning to say and so the context is confused and what she says is not what the listener is imagining. Sometimes it's so garbled, it doesn't make sense at all.


Does your daughter still use lots of filler uhms, ahs while she tries to get the thought into verbal form? When asked does she say she has the language/words of the thought in her head but it doesn't get from the brain to the mouth OR does she say she has an idea not expressed in words and then can't find the words for the idea? That last bit may sound weird but some people say they think in terms of colors, feelings, musical sequences, visual images. What is the native language of her brain might be a better way of phrasing the question.

I'm thinking she would say the latter is true. She has the concept in her brain, she knows what she's thinking, it just doesn't translate to words all the time. I'd say she probably thinks in pictures and the words get in the way.


Are you already working with a speech pathologist/therapist? What therapies have helped/hindered in the past? I always hate those pat answers like, just speak more slowly yadadyadayada... Not at all helpful to a girl (unusual and so particularly interesting on both a biological and social/emotional level) who is socialized and conditioned to create a space for herself in female hierarchy using verbal skills.

In preschool she saw a SLP who had her circle words below a picture that were associated with the picture. A drawing of a teddy bear with the words: High; Brown; Soft; Fast and she would circle Brown and Soft. We decided it wasn't really helping her.

I took her to Lindamood Bell a couple years ago but couldn't justify the cost and time (4 hours a day for 4 - 5 months at the price of a small car). Instead I bought the books online and would have her read the paragraph and answer the questions that helped her focus on the "gestalt," or basic image her brain would have made when reading. She could answer these just fine on paper and began to resent this work. When I asked her orally, thinking maybe there's a different neural pathway at work here, she could answer the questions just fine. Questions would be things like "What did you picture the woman's tea set to look like?" Things that weren't necessarily described in the paragraph, but things that the mind's eye would fill in to make the picture complete. We stopped doing that because she had no problem answering the questions.


I'll spend sometime throwing a few questions to folks working more specifically in this area. As I mostly study how the leap is made from spoken literacy to the written literacy and full lingual mastery I don't know as much about why some brains struggle to get out all the glorious stuff they have inside. Good Luck and if you have some information that answers my questions but don't want hanging out there on the web send me a private message and I'll put out feelers. I'll also check back in on this thread to see if someone else has some great info that keeps me from wondering down too many rabbit holes.

You're very kind! Thank you for taking your time with my question!

higgledypiggledy
03-24-2011, 11:18 PM
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I'll start doing some looking and maybe we can find some great data and resources to help your daughter be successful.