PDA

View Full Version : Supplementing question, in addition or in place of?



darkelf
04-15-2015, 03:55 PM
When you supplement is it in addition to their regular curriculum?

Or instead of their regular curriculum?

Or a mix of both?

For example our math program just introduced subtraction with regrouping. He definitely needs more work on it. So do I add extra pages for him? Or stop the curriculum and do regrouping until he feels confident?

I normally do Miquon Math once a week after their math. Though my kids love math. I only had them working on 1 page today and #5 begged to do another page. Then he sat there during #4 lesson playing with the tangrams. (Like over a half hour, making shapes, comparing two sets, ect...)

alexsmom
04-15-2015, 07:53 PM
Sometimes.

If they ask for more math, why not give it to them!

As far as concept mastery goes, Ive found that if extra practice problems arent getting DS the hang of it, then he will just get it later. DS wasnt getting fraction word problems (if 5/9 is 55 how many is 2/9) - he refused to follow the *procedure* and so floundered around. I gave up on it. A couple chapters later he encountered the same kind of question, and somehow was willing to listen to my advice that he solve for 1/9 first. Hes also a bit wobbly on rhombuses and trapezoids.... but Im sure he will get it all sorted out the next time around.

So practice a bit, then let it go. Come back to it when the rut he was stuck in isnt there, try it again fresh later.
Or maybe your math will teach another approach to subtraction that makes sense to him.

There was a thread here last year about cashier math, byzantium math, and common core subtraction wars. ;)
http://www.secularhomeschool.com/homeschool-curriculum/15015-common-core-math-funny.html

darkelf
04-15-2015, 08:08 PM
I can "go overboard" sometimes.

And yes often we do more math. Because we (my kids and dh) love math. I'm more neutral personally. (And so is my dyscalculic son)

Our math introduced regrouping at the end of the year. Of course the first few lessons are review with no regrouping. I thought maybe practicing regroup more would help him. I think he knows what to do, but not why. I would like to work on that. The next year already seems more rigorous, so maybe I can add just 1 row a day or something. If it is hands on, like Miquon, they consider that a game, not more math.

Elly
04-15-2015, 08:48 PM
I think it depends on the kid. I will totally let him do more of something if he's into it (although sometimes I do cut it off if I think he's starting to get burned out but hasn't realised it). Sometimes, when he's struggling, I think that he just needs to do a bit more or perhaps a different angle to get something. Sometimes, I think that a break and a return with a different angle (and more time) will be better.

Elly

MNDad
04-15-2015, 09:16 PM
We use Singapore Math. DD is in the middle of the Grade 2 books. For the most part, I've *never* been able to get by with the just the practice problems in the workbooks. Singapore does publish books with extra practice; but even that is hit-or-miss in terms of volume.

I've found that I have to create extra practice sheets - or better yet - just make up extra practice problems on a whiteboard that we pass back and forth.

Unless 100% consistent mastery is required to build onto the next concept in the curriculum, I think there's nothing wrong with circling back to a shaky part. With the multi-place borrow and carry, that's what we're doing now. She was about 70% with that; but we moved onto multiplication to avoid getting bogged down. We'll come back to the complex regrouping after a while.

darkelf
04-18-2015, 02:39 AM
I was talking basic 2 digit regrouping. (I will add digits as he seems to "get it".)

I do think he needs more practice. I'm not worried. While it may take him a time or two, he does seem to understand math eventually. (completely different from the dyscalculia kid)

But I got him Beast Academy (for next year) and I was wondering if you would use it "in addition too", like twice a week we add BA. Or "instead of" On Fridays we work on BA instead of McRuffy.

CrazyMom
04-18-2015, 03:07 AM
Do what works. Don't sweat the details, but keep the experience positive. If he's enjoying mastering the skill, let him have as much as he wants. If he's getting overwhelmed by too much practice, pull up before you crash. Avoid ending on a bad note. Stay productive/positive.

Change gears, use a physical manipulative to demonstrate regrouping.

Then, do it on paper, again.

Then, do a different manipulative.

Suggestions...piles of ten pennies and loose single pennies, ten beads on a bent paperclip and loose beads, sticks of ten playdough peas and single playdough peas. You've got your tens and ones. Physically "borrow" the objects while you write the numbers on the paper. Demonstrate the concept in 3D.

Mix the media. Get an entertaining kids math video at shows regrouping demonstrations.

alexsmom
04-18-2015, 10:01 AM
Did you see this little ditty from Treasures blog? (In the recent blog section).
The Tr3asures - Teaching a Monkey to Fly (http://thetr3asures.weebly.com)
3057

If youre really frustrated by regrouping, try different ways to teach it. What ever way the book youre using teaches it doesnt work, so going over that same process wont help. :(

Someone else on the forum had some story about the numbers and mafia or something.... really off the wall (in a good way). Maybe an outrageous story is all it will take for it to suddenly click.

Or have him do it in his head with place value. 92-16 = 92 - 10 - 6. 82 - 6 is solvable on your fingers. This re-grouping or borrowing shenanagins makes no sense unless you understand what youre doing to the place value. Why would you add a 1 here and make that number smaller? Youre really splitting the number up in two parts, adding 10 to the number on the right, and taking it off the number on the left.
Sorry if thats not really helpful. Thankfully, math isnt a challenge in our house.

CrazyMom
04-18-2015, 10:40 AM
A million years ago when I was a kid, I was taught "Austrian Subtraction" by someone at a family reunion. A great uncle I think? I love it, and I've used it my whole life. Much prefer it to the regrouping I was taught in school. I taught Elle both ways, and she prefers it, too.

I've tried to find examples of "Austrian Subtraction" online...and the only examples I've found are close...but complicate it.

With the method my great uncle used, you just stick a one at the top and at the bottom when you need to borrow....even if you have to borrow over four or five places, it will keep your equation sorted, and your computation fast. Ones at the top, get added as ten, ones at the bottom get subtracted as one. No "crossing out" as you "borrow"...which expedites the process.

3058

CrazyMom
04-18-2015, 11:17 AM
I think when Austrian subtraction is traditionally taught...they just stick a one in the middle to be used as both the "add ten and subtract one" symbol. I like my uncle's variance on the method. Having been taught the American algorithm first, it felt more familiar...and was just as convenient.

pdpele
04-18-2015, 01:54 PM
Darkelf - DS is about where your DS is with math...

Can your ds do it in his head? In other words, is it the paper/pencil procedure that trips him up or does he not know how to arrive at the answer, have trouble conceptualizing the place value? Could you ask him what's 23 - 9 and get the right answer - or 32 - 17? Is it just subtraction that's hard or is addition causing issues too? If it's just the algorithm on paper - more practice, probably or just more time to get it down consistently.

But if he can't solve it in his head either, break out the manipulatives and talk through oral problems and mental math strategies, would be my vote. Play some card games and have him keep score. Take a breather, maybe, from the workbook. And return to the paper/pencil worksheets later.

A hybrid of both might be to do series of paired problems like these (common in Singapore textbooks...)

12 - 7 = 5 22 - 7 = 15 18 - 9 = 9 38 - 9 = 29

These paired problems helped DS with mental addition/subtraction (2 digit) with regrouping.

Just some thoughts!

darkelf
04-24-2015, 02:33 AM
So we are doing "in addition too"

He does 1lesson of his "Math Curriculum", then he does 1 page of MM. (Some are two page lessons but we still just use 1 a day. ) We are also continuing the Ronit Bird lesson and Miquon.

So far, so good. No complaining about math yet.

I dropped the multiplication for now. (Using Ronit Bird anyway. But he understands multiplication, very well. He was telling dh about how he invented a car, I would go 2days on one drop of gas, 4 days on 2 drops and 2000 days on 1000 drops. Dh was impressed!

BakedAk
04-24-2015, 11:38 AM
I'm impressed with the gas mileage. :) When will his car be available to the masses?