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View Full Version : State By State Proficiency vs International Proficiency



aspiecat
10-07-2014, 12:41 PM
Found this today. Three years old, but still pertinent. Don't forget that each state sets its own standards and what "proficient" means - an American standard of some sort would have been useful as well, however there may be no such standard.

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AddlepatedMonkeyMama
10-07-2014, 01:35 PM
Well, go Massachusetts! It had the highest percentage of students that scored "proficient" on the international standards and the only one where the percentage of proficient students on the state standards was lower than than the percentage of proficient students on the international standards.

Many people here were upset that MA abandoned their high state standards to get Race to the Top funds. It will be interesting to see how kids here score on the CC/Pearson exams.

WWhomeschoolmom
10-07-2014, 01:41 PM
Wow, Washington is really scraping the bottom of the barrel!

alexsmom
10-07-2014, 02:07 PM
Interesting! Is there an article that goes with it? I dont see my state on there. :(

And wow, goes to show our delusions of competency... both the lack of students we find competent even based on our softened standards. (addlepated said it better)

zette
10-07-2014, 04:03 PM
Do you have a link to this chart? I can't seem to make it large enough to read...

JenRay
10-07-2014, 04:35 PM
Wow, Washington is really scraping the bottom of the barrel!
Except the graph seems to be ranked from top to bottom by the percentage proficient based on state standards. Seems like WA is about average (maybe even a little better) when you look at the performance based international standards. That could mean that WA state standards were more rigorous than other states, couldn't it? This chart tells me NOT that Georgia and Alabama are in the top 25% of proficiency, but that their state standards were quite low. By the state standards they look really good, but not by the international standards. MA is near the bottom of the chart, yet they have the highest performance against international standards. Their state standards must have been really high for them to perform that well internationally, and relatively low against the state standards.

I think there should be a companion chart ranking the states by the light blue bar (international standards).

ikslo
10-07-2014, 04:40 PM
Well, go Massachusetts! It had the highest percentage of students that scored "proficient" on the international standards and the only one where the percentage of proficient students on the state standards was lower than than the percentage of proficient students on the international standards.

Many people here were upset that MA abandoned their high state standards to get Race to the Top funds. It will be interesting to see how kids here score on the CC/Pearson exams.

I noticed that, too - made me feel like maybe I got a good PS education growing up, after all!

alexsmom
10-07-2014, 05:41 PM
I found this article which talks abt the states versus a national standard (which those few southern states especially fall short of)... but other than complimenting massachusetts for world class proficiency doesnt show how the others stack up.
Few States Set World-Class Standards - Education Next : Education Next (http://educationnext.org/few-states-set-worldclass-standards/)

WWhomeschoolmom
10-07-2014, 06:11 PM
Except the graph seems to be ranked from top to bottom by the percentage proficient based on state standards. Seems like WA is about average (maybe even a little better) when you look at the performance based international standards. That could mean that WA state standards were more rigorous than other states, couldn't it? This chart tells me NOT that Georgia and Alabama are in the top 25% of proficiency, but that their state standards were quite low. By the state standards they look really good, but not by the international standards. MA is near the bottom of the chart, yet they have the highest performance against international standards. Their state standards must have been really high for them to perform that well internationally, and relatively low against the state standards.

I think there should be a companion chart ranking the states by the light blue bar (international standards).


It's hard to tell from that graph on my phone lol. I will have to take a better look at it later.

JenRay
10-07-2014, 06:31 PM
It's hard to tell from that graph on my phone lol. I will have to take a better look at it later.
Ah yes! Only barely readable on my 27" computer screen! ;)

Elly
10-07-2014, 07:47 PM
Interesting! Is there an article that goes with it? I dont see my state on there. :(

And wow, goes to show our delusions of competency... both the lack of students we find competent even based on our softened standards. (addlepated said it better)
I could just read the writing that mentioned that California wasn't included, I think. I clicked on the report you posted the link to and looks like CA does better in math than reading and got a B overall for 2007, so quite near the top (FWIW).

Elly

alexsmom
10-07-2014, 07:54 PM
yah not terrible on that link but its missing from aspies graph :-/

aspiecat
10-07-2014, 08:34 PM
Do you have a link to this chart? I can't seem to make it large enough to read...

Here you go: Link (http://www.quickanded.com/2014/09/proficient-in-one-state-may-not-mean-proficient-in-another-never-mind-the-global-economy.html)

Aspie

aspiecat
10-07-2014, 08:45 PM
To be honest, Alabama is in the "worst" position. It has 77% proficiency for the state standards (whatever the standards are...remembering each state has its own), but the equivalent proficiency on a global scale is only 15%. That is BAD, as it shows that as a state, AL has a seemingly low standard of education in relation to all other states in the USA. That can be seen by the HUGE gap between state and global standards.

I honestly hate seeing this. As a NZer, and believing my whole life that the elementary, middle and high school education of America was not very good (I have close relations in the US and have spent a fair amount of time here previous to moving here), yet HIGHER education, TERTIARY education...well, that was something to be admired and sought after. DH (who is American) has nothing good to say about K-12, but a LOT of good to say about community college and university.

alexsmom
10-07-2014, 09:07 PM
One of the other articles I read pointed out that by simply moving a state to the west, one could go from not proficient to proficient without having any more competency.

Also, it shows that only 3 states have over 50% proficiency at 8th grade math? or is it proficiency at math in general, like what every adult should know?

And how does Canada have such drastically better results?

fastweedpuller
10-08-2014, 08:51 AM
Michigan's not on it either! Did we secede? Like California, geographically, it would probably be easy to do.

alexsmom
10-08-2014, 12:08 PM
The tiny box at the bottom says data not available for CA, Mi, and VA.... makes me wonder why though?

Its nice they included the link to the actual report in that article. :) I havent finished looking at it, but I still can't tell if its *proficiency* for 8th graders, or *mathematical proficiency* in general. Why test 8th graders, not 12th graders? For science, for example, I remember not having any real classes until high school, but Im pretty sure having scored well on AP and IB bio exams meant I would have reached proficiency then.

Of course the point of the article was that states were inflating their *proficiency* numbers to meet the No Child Gets Ahead requirements. But still, I wonder about it.

aspiecat
10-09-2014, 08:14 AM
From what I understand about these studies - I've flicked through a variety of articles over the past few days - the proficiency is for the subject and grade level in question. So proficiency in, say, KY's grade 8 Math is just that: proficiency in grade 8 Mathematics in accordance with what the Kentucky Department of Education believes that entails.

The thing here that is of particular interest to me is the sheer lack of exactly WHAT the term "proficiency" means for each grade level and for each state. Each state has its kids tested every year and although there are certain grade levels where more major testing is done, proficiency is tested every single year and measured against the state requirements. However if you look around on the Interwebzies, it's extremely difficult to find out exactly what the standards ARE for each state's "proficiency" levels. They definitely ARE different for each state.

aspiecat
10-09-2014, 10:50 AM
This is also interesting...

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Aroura
10-09-2014, 11:02 AM
To be honest, Alabama is in the "worst" position. It has 77% proficiency for the state standards (whatever the standards are...remembering each state has its own), but the equivalent proficiency on a global scale is only 15%. That is BAD, as it shows that as a state, AL has a seemingly low standard of education in relation to all other states in the USA. That can be seen by the HUGE gap between state and global standards.

I honestly hate seeing this. As a NZer, and believing my whole life that the elementary, middle and high school education of America was not very good (I have close relations in the US and have spent a fair amount of time here previous to moving here), yet HIGHER education, TERTIARY education...well, that was something to be admired and sought after. DH (who is American) has nothing good to say about K-12, but a LOT of good to say about community college and university.

It's true, America is generally recognized world-wide as having the best, or nearly the best, universities in the world. WHY we have great higher education and terrible lower grade education isn't really a mystery. Our universities were set up right from the start with high expectations from teachers and a very progressive attitude for learning. Our grade and middle schools started out as one room school houses taught by women, who were mostly stigmatized in early times, and run by men who were more interested in looking important than getting good results. I read a good article not too long ago about why American public education is failing, and it was very detailed and went into our education history. Sorry, I cannot find the link to it right now. :(

aspiecat
10-09-2014, 06:22 PM
I think this is why homeschoolers do rather well at university here. Good K-12 education then good tertiary education.