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aspiecat
07-10-2014, 12:39 PM
A new SHS member posted about her DD attending community college to finish high school and to start her tertiary education path. This is of great interest to me as DS has made the decision to start community college a semester earlier than planned, ie, January next year as opposed to August. This is because so long as he can (a) prove he has completed the core Sophomore classes, and (b) can pass the literacy and numeracy placement tests, he would be allowed entry to our local community college.

I assume each CC has a similar pathway for homeschoolers and as we will hopefully have moved interstate by the end of the year, I am hopeful DS can follow this path he is setting for himself. He's highly motivated and that is fabulous to see!

I found the following document and it's rather interesting: Improving Student Transfer from Community Colleges to Four-Year Institutions — The Perspective of Leaders from Baccalaureate-Granting Institutions (http://advocacy.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/11b3193transpartweb110712.pdf).

Anyone else looking at community college as an alternative to university or university entrance for their homeschoolers?

Aspie

dbmamaz
07-10-2014, 01:47 PM
In my state (virginia) there are agreements between the community colleges and the state universities, some of them with guaranteed admittance if you get certain grades. But you do have to make sure you are taking the correct classes which will be accepted as transfers.

On the other hand, I dont think my teen has the stamina to get through 2 years of transfer credits - its all the boring classes, and a lot of work. I'm pushing him in to a career-development-type program. very few of his credits will transfer to a 4-year school, but I think thats ok for us, for now. I figure its better to actually finish a 2-year non-transfer degree than to drop out of a transfer degree.

I did end up skipping the SAT for him (he did take the PSAT) once we realized we were going this way. And if he DOES end up wanting a 4-year degree, he can still come back and finish up the transfer credits here first. Thats what my daughter did - she was dual enrolled for 2 year, finished up high school and moved away, came back and did another community college semester (with a transfer focus, which she had not had before) and then transferred in to VCU, which is nearby and has a great marketing department.

and then she moved out of state and has not yet returned to school - but the option is still there

RunningYogini
07-10-2014, 02:33 PM
I attended Community College as a high school student. I was not homeschooled. I was bored in my high school classes. It was the best thing I could have done for myself. It was inexpensive. I took classes that would transfer to a 4-year uni. I did not complete a degree at CC. I was able to transfer to a 4-year uni without any trouble at all. I saved a lot of money by taking that route.

aspiecat
07-10-2014, 05:25 PM
I figure its better to actually finish a 2-year non-transfer degree than to drop out of a transfer degree.

Totally agree, Cara. I am in favour of this pathway DS has in mind for a number of reasons, one of them being the fact he may well decide to finish a two-year degree and do something with that. I'm not REALLY seeing a dual enrollment for him at this point in time (it's not necessary for our local CC, at least), but they are happy to meet with us near the end of the year and discuss what his plans are and how CC could help him.

I think community colleges are becoming more "acceptable" by many families, particularly since it is becoming more and more difficult to afford universities' full-on degrees. Community colleges definitely are not only now seen as a route to a more affordable route to that "coveted" four year qualification, but also as a bone fide route to a career.

murphs_mom
07-10-2014, 05:38 PM
Not sure if any other CC/U's have this issue, but our local CC has an agreement with the local U, BUT the U does NOT accept the CC's credits on a credit-to-credit basis. IOW, if you take a 3hr course at the CC in 'whatever', the U may only accept 2 of the 3 credit hours. It sucks because you still end up having to take the U's course to balance out the hour requirements. :(

This is only an issue, though, if one plans to go on to a U.

inmom
07-10-2014, 05:46 PM
My kids started at the local satellite campus of a state university two years ago. DS was a freshman, DD was a sophomore. They were required to get a minimum score on the SAT, so each took it the spring before and met the goal. (Typically, they want the student to be a high school junior, but since my kids had decent SAT scores, they made an exception.)

They have done one course a semester, for the most part. There was one semester each took two, and they may do so again now that they are older and can manage their time better.

I think it's been great for them. They've had to be responsible to someone other than me! Better yet, they now know they can handle college level work in a college environment.

groovymom2000
07-10-2014, 05:50 PM
My DS is thinking about taking that route--on some days. He will most likely do some dual enrollment for sure, but he's also thinking about graduating early and taking the first year or two here, then transferring. There are a lot of things to consider with that, so nothing is in stone yet. A lot will depend on how he does in the next year or two with the classes that he will be taking. But it's on the table.

aspiecat
07-10-2014, 07:27 PM
DH thinks that DS will be able to sit the ACT in December and get a decent enough score, so we'll have that to wave at both community colleges and universities. DS is happy to sit it, and the Math is the only thing he has to beef up on (he's doing pre-calc but is a ways off the ACT confidence-wise).

I think it's important for a kid to have as many options as that kid is able to procure, to ensure they have enough paths open to them. Depending on the child, it could be scores from the SAT, the ACT, community college placement tests, credits from high school equivalency homeschool programs or CC, scholarships from wherever...or a combination of these. DS wants to get as many certifications and scores as he can in the next three years, so by the time he is 18 he will hopefully have more options than just the usual "leave high school - start university" one.

skrink
07-10-2014, 07:58 PM
Interesting info here. We've been strongly leaning toward this option for dd, for a variety of reasons. Financially it makes a great deal of sense. There's also the fact that she's emotionally much younger than her age, and unless something miraculous happens between now and then she definitely won't be ready for the challenges of a 4 year school. Given that she's heading into 7th grade this fall we're not in any hurry but I've been in info gathering mode.

PoppinFresh
07-10-2014, 08:11 PM
Community colleges are terrific. I started at a community college, got an AAS degree, then transferred to a 4 year school where I got a BA. Saved a ton of money, got a good education. Never took the SATs! All of my credits transferred.

aspiecat
07-11-2014, 10:32 AM
PF - I am guessing the transfer of credits - whether all can be brought across to a university program or only some of them can - can depend upon a variety of factors, including how close a course taken at a CC is to the supposed equivalent at a university. Or perhaps the university itself has a policy, designed to protect their intake of fees, of only accepting up to 2/3 of CC credit hours.

murphs_mom
07-11-2014, 11:12 AM
I'm sure the money is part of it, but I've been told that part of it is that the U feels that the CC (our local one, specifically) is sub-par and that, for example, a 3hr psych course at the CC isn't 'worth' the same as a 3hr psych course at the U. Therefore, the U only gives 2hr of credit if a student tries to transfer in the 3hr CC course. NOT all schools do this, but some do. It's best to make sure prior to taking the CC courses IF one is going to follow up by attending a U afterward.

It's all a numbers game. Unfortunately.

inmom
07-11-2014, 11:53 AM
Yes, you really have to do your homework before your child enrolls to see what transfers. Indiana is great in that the course catalogs for the universities and CCs list which courses are automatically transferable credit-for-credit within the state. On the other hand, I'm personally OK that some of my kids' credits may not transfer. They're doing dual credit for the experience as much as for the credit.

Luckily, for one of the universities (an out-of-state Big 10 school)where my daughter is applying, all 24 of her credit hours will transfer. For the other two (private univ in NYC), probably not so much.

For my son, I know 6 credit hours of chemistry won't transfer, since it wasn't of the caliber a STEM kid should take in college. However, as a high school sophomore, neither of us thought he was ready for the tougher chemistry. By taking this lower level one, he's now more than ready to tackle it when the time comes in a couple of years.

crazyme
07-12-2014, 05:35 PM
Yes, you really have to do your homework before your child enrolls to see what transfers. Indiana is great in that the course catalogs for the universities and CCs list which courses are automatically transferable credit-for-credit within the state. On the other hand, I'm personally OK that some of my kids' credits may not transfer. They're doing dual credit for the experience as much as for the credit.

Luckily, for one of the universities (an out-of-state Big 10 school)where my daughter is applying, all 24 of her credit hours will transfer. For the other two (private univ in NYC), probably not so much.

For my son, I know 6 credit hours of chemistry won't transfer, since it wasn't of the caliber a STEM kid should take in college. However, as a high school sophomore, neither of us thought he was ready for the tougher chemistry. By taking this lower level one, he's now more than ready to tackle it when the time comes in a couple of years.

I'm starting the info-gathering mode, too. I'm glad to hear that an out-of-state university will take her credits. Obviously, it is a case-by-case basis, but it gives me hope. We move A LOT, so I'm not sure how far along he would be through his dual enrollment journey before we moved again. He is only in 6th grade, and I think he is on track to stay within his "normal" grade level, but may jump up a grade level in certain subjects before junior high is out. Anyhow, if he stays on track, we could end up moving right before he starts CC or right after. Thankfully, I've got a lot of time to slowly figure out the best route for him and our family.

groovymom2000
07-13-2014, 11:21 AM
DH thinks that DS will be able to sit the ACT in December and get a decent enough score, so we'll have that to wave at both community colleges and universities. DS is happy to sit it, and the Math is the only thing he has to beef up on (he's doing pre-calc but is a ways off the ACT confidence-wise).

I think it's important for a kid to have as many options as that kid is able to procure, to ensure they have enough paths open to them. Depending on the child, it could be scores from the SAT, the ACT, community college placement tests, credits from high school equivalency homeschool programs or CC, scholarships from wherever...or a combination of these. DS wants to get as many certifications and scores as he can in the next three years, so by the time he is 18 he will hopefully have more options than just the usual "leave high school - start university" one.

Absolutely, and we're looking that way too. E. took the ACT this year as part of Duke's TIP program, and did far better on it than I expected, with math being his lowest area (we were just finished with pre-algebra when he took it). Granted, that was ACT without writing, and had his writing score been in there it would have been much lower. But it gave him a good bit of confidence about taking the test later on. Of course, the fact that he scored "college ready" on everything BUT math, has made him somewhat arrogant in his own abilities.

aspiecat
07-14-2014, 04:58 PM
It's a fine line between confidence and arrogance at times, isn't it? LOL

Aspie

groovymom2000
07-16-2014, 11:43 AM
It's a fine line between confidence and arrogance at times, isn't it? LOL

Aspie

Oh yes. He was humbled yesterday in his first online Spanish lesson with Homeschool Spanish Academy. She did it in a nice way, but he said after the lesson that he knew he was behind, and that he was going to learn a lot more with this class than he did last year (state online virtual class). Sometimes we have to step out of the way and let them fall so that they can learn. It still stings my mama's heart when it happens, though.

aspiecat
07-16-2014, 10:46 PM
Oh yes. He was humbled yesterday in his first online Spanish lesson with Homeschool Spanish Academy. She did it in a nice way, but he said after the lesson that he knew he was behind, and that he was going to learn a lot more with this class than he did last year (state online virtual class). Sometimes we have to step out of the way and let them fall so that they can learn. It still stings my mama's heart when it happens, though.

GM2000 - if I can ask, what did your DS get as his average score for the ACT? If you'd prefer to not tell, that's okay.

groovymom2000
07-18-2014, 10:34 AM
GM2000 - if I can ask, what did your DS get as his average score for the ACT? If you'd prefer to not tell, that's okay.

I'll send you a PM. :)

Pilgrim
07-19-2014, 12:04 PM
In NY, the SUNY system's 64 campuses work together, making the transferring of credits easy. A general education class taken at one campus will transfer within the system. With the rise in online coursework, credits transferring is even more seamless. State CCs have partnerships with 4-year colleges, both private and public. With online work, you can actually earn certain bachelor degrees while staying at your local CC.

When I taught CC, most of the homeschoolers who came had plans to go on to a 4 year program. I think for them (and for many others), CC offers the opportunity to get a feel for college life. There are few if any lecture halls, and student services and professors are more accessible.

DD-12 is in anti-college mode lately, but she's anti-everything. :confused: CC might be a good option for her when the time comes. We'll see!

dbmamaz
07-19-2014, 03:33 PM
But isnt it still hard to get in to the state system at all in NY? You need to pass high-stake tests or something?

Pilgrim
07-19-2014, 04:16 PM
But isnt it still hard to get in to the state system at all in NY? You need to pass high-stake tests or something?

Not sure what you mean by "hard."

As with most CCs, those in NY accept everyone with a HS diploma or equivalent (including homeshoolers). Each of the 30 or so 4-year colleges/universities in the system have requirements beyond that -- such as the SAT.

Are you referring to the regents requirements for earning a HS diploma? At one time, you could earn a non-regents diploma (I failed my French exam by a few points and didn't get the R diploma). Now, it's required unless you're in a technical/career program at your high school. There are six subject exams you have to pass. Regents Requirements (http://www.hesc.ny.gov/content.nsf/SFC/Regents_Requirements)

If that's the case, yes, it's "hard" to earn a high school diploma. The homeschoolers I taught and advised at community college had earned their GED, some by way of the college itself.

aspiecat
07-19-2014, 04:33 PM
Pilgrim, that's very interesting, what you say about most of the homeschoolers you were teaching at CC. I haven't heard that is a requirement at our local CC if you start there prior to finishing high school, however I expect it is if you want to go onto a four-year university. That will definitely be something we check with whatever CC DS decides to go to.

Accidental Homeschooler
07-22-2014, 10:58 AM
Community colleges here are set up for a student to do their freshman and sophomore years to transfer to any of the three state Universities. Private colleges generally don't transfer credit from them. You may be able to avoid taking a freshman level class but you still would need to take the same amount of credits, just a higher level class. So there is no cost savings. If you do CC and go to the state U you can just do two years at the U and graduate with a degree from them. So, financially CC is a great deal if you are planning on a state school. It is not a good deal financially if you want to go to a private college. And Of course there are other reasons besides financial ones to go to CC and they do have other degree/programs that are vocational, not just the transfer option. What does your son want to do Aspie?

aspiecat
07-22-2014, 11:18 AM
Community colleges here are set up for a student to do their freshman and sophomore years to transfer to any of the three state Universities. Private colleges generally don't transfer credit from them. You may be able to avoid taking a freshman level class but you still would need to take the same amount of credits, just a higher level class. So there is no cost savings. If you do CC and go to the state U you can just do two years at the U and graduate with a degree from them. So, financially CC is a great deal if you are planning on a state school. It is not a good deal financially if you want to go to a private college. And Of course there are other reasons besides financial ones to go to CC and they do have other degree/programs that are vocational, not just the transfer option. What does your son want to do Aspie?

More interesting info - great to get all this food for thought!

Julie, my DS wants to study Psychology then either go straight onto law school, or do his Masters in Psych, then his Doctorate in some aspect of Psych. The second path he would take to teach at university, or do research...he'd prefer the former. However, law is his first choice, so when I told him you can do an Associate Degree in Criminal Justice at community college, he was very keen on that. Yet to get the maximum use out of a CC degree's transfer to a four-year institution, he'd obviously be best to do General Studies (I think it's called that).

The reason he wants to go to community college is because he is concerned that going straight to a four-year university will be too much, and he wants to ease into his tertiary study. For graduate studies, he'd probably choose a place that gives him the best "value for money" LOL but also he'd want to attend all parts of his education near home (he wants to live at home while at CC and for his first year of university, so when we move interstate, we'll have that in mind).

Aspie

Accidental Homeschooler
07-22-2014, 11:53 AM
I think doing the criminal justice AA degree and working in that field while going to a University to finish his undergrad degree could be one plan. And doing the general ed that transfers credit for credit could be another and would be better as far as cost. But I do think that having work experience in his field will really help when it comes to law school or a PhD program though. I got into a grad program with less than stellar academics as an undergraduate because of my work experience. So that might be another thing to consider.

My dd16 is going straight to University this Fall. Our state allows high school students who have been identified as gifted to take classes at the University and even picks up the cost if they are taking a class that is not offered at the high school. So the state is paying for five credits and we are paying for six. Next semester the state should pick up more because she will be beyond the level at the high school, at least I hope so lol. We could do the same at the CC and were going to originally go that route, but then dh took her on some college visits and classes at the U will be more helpful in getting her into the college she wants to go to. And if she does get in, and the school she wants is tough to get into for anybody, having a 6% acceptance rate, none of her University classes will transfer for credit. The whole process is fricking crazy. But if she doesn't get in she could always stay here and graduate at twenty or so and then try for grad school. It would certainly save us a ton of money with the state picking up a good portion of her first two years.

aspiecat
07-22-2014, 03:43 PM
I think doing the criminal justice AA degree and working in that field while going to a University to finish his undergrad degree could be one plan. And doing the general ed that transfers credit for credit could be another and would be better as far as cost. But I do think that having work experience in his field will really help when it comes to law school or a PhD program though. I got into a grad program with less than stellar academics as an undergraduate because of my work experience. So that might be another thing to consider.

The only thing holding us back from looking at the AA in Criminal Justice at CC is not being able to transfer as many credits over to the "second half" of a BA in Psych. It might be that the AA in General Studies would be best, however I will do some research and we will visit with one or more CC's advisers to see what is best. I don't think he actually minds what he studies at CC so long as he (a) gets a qualification at the end of it...that would look like he has used his time there wisely, (b) gets a decent number of credits to transfer to a BA in Psych, and (c) can use that time to decide more closely what he wants to do.


My dd16 is going straight to University this Fall. Our state allows high school students who have been identified as gifted to take classes at the University and even picks up the cost if they are taking a class that is not offered at the high school. So the state is paying for five credits and we are paying for six. Next semester the state should pick up more because she will be beyond the level at the high school, at least I hope so lol. We could do the same at the CC and were going to originally go that route, but then dh took her on some college visits and classes at the U will be more helpful in getting her into the college she wants to go to. And if she does get in, and the school she wants is tough to get into for anybody, having a 6% acceptance rate, none of her University classes will transfer for credit. The whole process is fricking crazy. But if she doesn't get in she could always stay here and graduate at twenty or so and then try for grad school. It would certainly save us a ton of money with the state picking up a good portion of her first two years.

Our local high school doesn't do anything much with their gifted students. They kind of don't know WHAT to do with them! I hope your DD has a great time on her journey...it's so exciting for them, isn't it?

Accidental Homeschooler
07-22-2014, 05:58 PM
Our local high school doesn't do anything much with their gifted students. They kind of don't know WHAT to do with them! I hope your DD has a great time on her journey...it's so exciting for them, isn't it?

It is exciting.