PDA

View Full Version : Apologia Marine Biology (questions)



Gwenhwyfar
08-17-2010, 08:59 PM
(If you happen to be on other forums and have seen this recently, sorry! I'm asking all over the place because I'd really like to hear from anyone who has used it... :cool: )

I wonder if I might bend the ears of anyone who has used this...

Dd13 has expressed interest in using the Marine Biology program... and the last thing that I want to do is squish an interest... but I'm a bit concerned.

1. It's listed as a 11/12th grade course; she's going into 9th.

2. It says that a student should have taken a "first year biology course" already; she hasn't.

3. It's (obviously) written from a Christian, and I believe YEC, perspective; we do not fit this profile.

There was also mention of math skills on one website - I can't remember what it said.. something about "Algebra II" ? She hasn't done Algebra yet.

Now - we aren't concerned about 'credits' or anything. That doesn't begin until the 10th grade for us. This is purely because she's shown an interest. I wouldn't expect her to do this alone - I'd do it with her. I've not done a "first year biology course" either though -- so can someone tell me why they suggest that? We're both coming at this with empty biology buckets.

If we need to do a little extra 'looking things up', that's fine. If this is more like trying to jump into the 2nd level of a language course without even knowing how to say "Hello" -- that could be a problem.

She does NOT want to do the basic biology course that they offer - it's the marine that's caught her eye. Oceans, marine life, how's it all work, what's done there, etc. I'm really not seeing a whole lot of other programs that are similar to this - if you do know of something that might be a bit more age/grade appropriate, please give me a link to check it out. (it has to be something we can order - not an online course.)

I've never seen the book before...I did look at the sample module here (http://www.apologia.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8) and... it doesn't look that difficult... I like the 'conversational' style and I think dd13 will as well. In the sample module there, I really don't see anything that screams "You can't do this! You need other courses first!"

I do see three very obvious 'in your face' bits about the age of the earth and anti-evolution. (I don't mean rude by 'in your face' - I just mean obvious.) If it's always that 'out there' -- the author seems to go "I'd like to take a minute blah blah blah" or stuff.. makes it obvious... if it's always like that, we can just skip over that stuff.. or look up info to counter it with our views, whatever. I don't see a lot of 'God this' and 'God that' ....

Oh one other note: we'd be getting a good microscope and the kit with the specimens on slides, but not the dissection stuff. She doesn't want to be cutting anything open - can't say as that I blame her. We can always go online and look for some videos/animations of dissections if need be. Apparently there is also a cd with videos/etc on it too; we'd order that as well.

Anyone care to share their experience with it?

Thanks! :)

Busygoddess
08-17-2010, 09:42 PM
I refuse to use Apologia due to it being VERY religious (from everything I've read & heard).
2 years ago, my dd did Marine Biology using this course (http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1282095162-719082&subject=11&category=3131). It's completely Secular and for grades 9+. We didn't do all the labs suggested in the Lab Book. It doesn't come with a kit of materials for the labs, but it's not a very expensive course, either. We enjoyed it.

MamaB2C
08-17-2010, 10:11 PM
All Apologia books are written from a Creationist mindset, there isn't really any out of your face with these. A biology professor of my acquaintance also told me the snippets of their books he reviewed were not scientifically accurate. That being said, this one book appears to have been written by a sort of guest author who is a marine biologist, and homeschooler, so it may be better than the others

I would probably, personally, find or create a unit study and use the many living books available.

Teri
08-17-2010, 11:15 PM
I don't think on a secular website you are going to get much love for Apologia.

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 12:18 AM
I refuse to use Apologia due to it being VERY religious (from everything I've read & heard).
2 years ago, my dd did Marine Biology using this course (http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1282095162-719082&subject=11&category=3131). It's completely Secular and for grades 9+. We didn't do all the labs suggested in the Lab Book. It doesn't come with a kit of materials for the labs, but it's not a very expensive course, either. We enjoyed it.

Hmmm...I haven't seen that one until now.. I'll check it out, thanks! I know Apologia's stuff is 'very religious', in the sense that the company who puts it out certainly is (heck, look at the name) ... but I'd not found much of anything else similar... I'll definitely have a look at the one that you linked though!


All Apologia books are written from a Creationist mindset, there isn't really any out of your face with these. A biology professor of my acquaintance also told me the snippets of their books he reviewed were not scientifically accurate. That being said, this one book appears to have been written by a sort of guest author who is a marine biologist, and homeschooler, so it may be better than the others

I would probably, personally, find or create a unit study and use the many living books available.

I'd actually prefer 'in your face' if there's going to be Creationist stuff - because if it's obvious and glaring, I can easily pick it out and avoid/discuss/etc... if it's 'hidden', it's more difficult to catch... know what I mean?

As appealing as creating our own unit study would be, it's just not feasible at this point. I need something that is already set up, ready to go. I can *add* things, or change things up here and there, but creating from the ground up doesn't work very well in our home... time, resources, etc.. just not on our side.


I don't think on a secular website you are going to get much love for Apologia.

Never said I was looking for love :cool: ~ do you have any suggestions for Marine Biology programs created by other sources? There are a lot of homeschoolers who use 'Christian' materials in a secular fashion. (Sonlight, for example. I believe there's a huge 'Secular Sonlight' group out there - people who are not Christian, altering a Christian program to fit their needs.)

MamaB2C
08-18-2010, 01:18 AM
The problem I see with Apologia is that the entire science series is based on Creationsim. In my experience, if all the scientific evidence points to X, but X doesn't fit the Biblical story, then Creationist writers (apologists) exclude it, or twist the evidence to meet their preconceived answer. That's not really science to me. Skipping over the religious parts in literature is much easier than trying to figure out what is scientifically accurate and what is Creationist belief...especially if neither of you have a biology background.

I just feel like I would be constantly correcting the information. For example I wonder how they explain that marine mammals have 5 digit bone construction in their fins, similar to the configuration of paws/feet/hand bones in other mammals? Do they just skip the comparison altogether?

Is the goal simply to learn about marine life and ecology? If so, must it be a full homeschool specific course? Try typing "marine science" into Amazon, there are a ton of books and even a unit study guide for independent learning.

pandahoneybee
08-18-2010, 08:45 AM
Just a suggestion but have you checked out ipod university thru your apple account? they have free videos from a bunch of major universities they may have something that you could use?

farrarwilliams
08-18-2010, 09:45 AM
I'd actually prefer 'in your face' if there's going to be Creationist stuff - because if it's obvious and glaring, I can easily pick it out and avoid/discuss/etc... if it's 'hidden', it's more difficult to catch... know what I mean?



Actually, I think in a lot of these Christian materials, the science itself is just very poor - sometimes in ways that have nothing to do with creationism or young earth nonsense. There was that report about that several months ago about all the flaws in the homeschool science curricula. I feel like some of it would be very easy to pick out, but some of it wouldn't at all. So that would make me strongly distrust any science material from a Christian publisher. I suspect that unless you know biology pretty well that there will be errors you wouldn't spot.

I wish I could help you with materials, but my littles are so far away from high school stuff that I'm totally not there yet!

Teri
08-18-2010, 10:15 AM
By "Love", I meant that the science is so flawed and the religion so pervasive that there is not a good way for someone who really wants a secular program to use Apologia.
I spent a couple of hours one day reading their samples online and I was absolutely floored by the information.

Coming to a group that identifies as being "Secular homeschoolers" and asking them about creationist science, you are going to probably get a lot of dissenting opinions.
Here is a quote from the Marine Biology class:
I want to stop here and discuss this phenomenon for a moment. The Atlantic Ocean is up to
1,000 miles wide and is believed to be a completely new ocean that formed when Pangaea broke apart.
If it always grew at its present rate, it would have taken millions of years to get to the size it is today.
However, there is no strong evidence to suggest that the rate of the ocean’s growth has been constant.
In fact, many parameters of our earth have not been constant over time, including the earth’s magnetic
field. Thus, there is no reason to believe that the plates have always moved slowly. During a
catastrophic event, the plates might have moved apart from each other very quickly. In fact, there is a
very detailed mathematical model of catastrophic plate tectonics that predicts very rapid plate
movements during the worldwide Flood that occurred in Noah’s day.

and another:

I want to point out something else that is quite amazing. There is a remarkable and vital
similarity between the chemical composition of seawater and the composition of the body fluids of
marine organisms. In other words, the body fluids of most sea creatures are very much like seawater.
Well, according to the hypothesis of evolution, the seawater in the oceans of the world has changed
substantially over time. As a result, an evolutionist would have to assume that animals adjusted their
body fluids to match their environment as the oceans of the world evolved. This is a very difficult
“model” to explain, since it requires random mutations in a very complex DNA structure to produce
any desired result in an organism’s bodily makeup. A much more reasonable explanation is that
organisms were designed to fit their environments by an intelligent Designer.
Think about it: If the evolutionist view were true, there should be many areas of the ocean
where no organism could exist, because it would take time for an organism’s DNA to alter itself to fit
the existing living conditions. In addition, there would be organisms living in environments for which
they were not yet perfectly suited, because they were in “evolutionary transition,” trying to “catch up”
with the changing ocean. We do not see either of these conditions, however. The world’s oceans are
teeming with life in every major sector, and the organisms are perfectly suited for their particular
habitats. In the end, this gives us strong evidence that life in the oceans and the oceans themselves
have not changed radically over time. They have all been designed by an almighty Creator.

For any science class that my kids have, the science needs to be based on state and national standards.
http://www.nsta.org/publications/nses.aspx

Teri
08-18-2010, 10:32 AM
do you have any suggestions for Marine Biology programs created by other sources? There are a lot of homeschoolers who use 'Christian' materials in a secular fashion. (Sonlight, for example. I believe there's a huge 'Secular Sonlight' group out there - people who are not Christian, altering a Christian program to fit their needs.)
Here is what a search of Curriki revealed:
http://www.curriki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Search/#o%3As%3Ds%253Aresource%5Ef%3Do%253Aresource%253Do %25253Aterms%25253Ds%2525253Amarine%25252520biolog y%25255Esubjectparent%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Esubje ct%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Ecategory%25253Ds%2525253 A%25255Elevel%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Elanguage%2525 3Ds%2525253A%25255Ereview%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Ei ctprfx%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Eict%25253Ds%2525253A %25255Especial%25253Ds%2525253A%255Egroup%253Do%25 253Asubjectparent%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Esubject%2 5253Ds%2525253A%25255Elevel%25253Ds%2525253A%25255 Elanguage%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Epolicy%25253Ds%25 25253A%255Emember%253Do%25253Asubjectparent%25253D s%2525253A%25255Esubject%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Eme mber_type%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Ecountry%25253Ds%2 525253A%255Ecurriki%253Do%25253A%5Ep%3Do%253Aresou rce%253Do%25253Ac%25253Dn%2525253A0%25255Es%25253D n%2525253A25%255Egroup%253Do%25253Ac%25253Dn%25252 53A0%25255Es%25253Dn%2525253A25%255Emember%253Do%2 5253Ac%25253Dn%2525253A0%25255Es%25253Dn%2525253A2 5%255Ecurriki%253Do%25253Ac%25253Dn%2525253A0%2525 5Es%25253Dn%2525253A25%5Et%3Ds%253Asearch-resource-tab%5Ea%3Do%253A

This was the first hit on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Biology-Peter-Castro/dp/0073524166/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282141523&sr=8-1

Here is a site with lesson plans and links about oceans and marine biology:
http://web.vims.edu/bridge/lesson.html?svr=www

Here is a link to National Geographic's results:
http://www.thinkfinity.org/partner-search?start=0&partner=4&partner_value=no&from_links=&txtKeyWord=ocean&txtKeyWord2=&narrow=1&chkPartner[]=Xpeditions

We used a unit from MBTP last year:
http://www.movingbeyondthepage.com/purchase9to11.asp?displayItems=true
Sonlight is a little different imo than Apologia. Sonlight uses a lot of secular books and literature and interjects religion into it in other ways. I do think it is moderately doable to use Sonlight as a secular homeschooler. (I would not use it though.)

mommykicksbutt
08-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Anything Apologia is forbidden in our school room! They have a young-earth, creationist/intelligent design, religious, Jesus baked agenda, they don't teach real science. They may have splatterings of it here and there peppered in with their well crafted lies to masquerade as real science. Keep away, far away from Apologia!

Look for another curriculum, here's a good starting point that may even be used as a curriculum depending upon your and your daughter's style: http://www.squidoo.com/oceans_and_marine_biology

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 11:00 AM
The problem I see with Apologia is that the entire science series is based on Creationsim. In my experience, if all the scientific evidence points to X, but X doesn't fit the Biblical story, then Creationist writers (apologists) exclude it, or twist the evidence to meet their preconceived answer. That's not really science to me. Skipping over the religious parts in literature is much easier than trying to figure out what is scientifically accurate and what is Creationist belief...especially if neither of you have a biology background.

I just feel like I would be constantly correcting the information. For example I wonder how they explain that marine mammals have 5 digit bone construction in their fins, similar to the configuration of paws/feet/hand bones in other mammals? Do they just skip the comparison altogether?

Is the goal simply to learn about marine life and ecology? If so, must it be a full homeschool specific course? Try typing "marine science" into Amazon, there are a ton of books and even a unit study guide for independent learning.

If I get asked later "So what did you learn today?" I'll be able to tell the person that I learned - before my second cup of coffee even - that marine mammals have 5 digit bone construction in their fins. (Which sorta proves your point I guess eh?)

Yes - that's basically the goal. This isn't for any kind of 'high school credit' (that type of thing doesn't begin until the 10th grade here) or such.. it's just that she's shown an interest and wants to do it...

...but I do need to find some kind of 'already put together' program to follow. I've not been very successful trying to go the DIY route in the past. Organization is NOT my strong suit. We used KONOS for a bit the other year (unit study) and I was so scattered & frustrated - I couldn't find half of the library books they suggested, none of the videos, never had the right craft supplies - and just getting to the library to get ANY books can be a major undertaking in the winter here when it's -48C (-54F) outside those doors. :p

Hey, at least I'm willing to acknowledge my flaws. LOL

Our second child is a very high needs kiddo, so that also effects what type of programs I need. He takes a lot more 1-1 time, so I can't be chasing my tail trying to build a program from scratch for dd13.

I'm definitely going to look further into the one that Brandi linked up above.. it looks like an actual put-together course... although a) I don't know if they ship to Canada (or if they do for reasonable prices/or if i could find it here IN Canada somewhere), b) I wish I could see a sample chapter, and c) this could prove problematic..

"The equipment needed is not extensive, although you will have to find or purchase some aquatic organisms (plankton, common bioluminescent creatures, a hydra and other more common aquatic plants and animals), a water test kit, a hydrometer, and a few other items"

Buying things like that could be a challenge.... :eek:

With the Apologia course, you can order prepared slides, dissection kit, the works, right with the books. All from one place - and easily from Canadian curriculum suppliers.


Just a suggestion but have you checked out ipod university thru your apple account? they have free videos from a bunch of major universities they may have something that you could use?

hey, thanks for the idea - I don't use iTunes that much but I know there's a thing there.. I'll have a look and see what they have. Merci beaucoup.


Actually, I think in a lot of these Christian materials, the science itself is just very poor - sometimes in ways that have nothing to do with creationism or young earth nonsense. There was that report about that several months ago about all the flaws in the homeschool science curricula. I feel like some of it would be very easy to pick out, but some of it wouldn't at all. So that would make me strongly distrust any science material from a Christian publisher. I suspect that unless you know biology pretty well that there will be errors you wouldn't spot.

I wish I could help you with materials, but my littles are so far away from high school stuff that I'm totally not there yet!

Do you have any further info on the part that I bolded? :eek: I'd like to find out more about this report & flaws & whatever... and yeah, I definitely don't know biology very well at all.

Yeah the teenage years kinda sneak up on you when you're not looking. ;)

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 11:03 AM
Teri & mommykicksbutt: I'd started my reply about an hour ago and ended up leaving the screen open during a phone call, didn't realize you guys had added to the thread until I posted; wasn't meaning to leave you off the multiquote. :) Reading your replies now...

wild_destiny
08-18-2010, 11:20 AM
Hey, Gwenhwyfar, science is not my strong suit, either, so I also have learned a few things this morning--and my coffee is just now percolating. What a good bunch of informative posts. I plan on checking out a lot of the things all you guys have listed, so thanks for posting your question.

Busygoddess
08-18-2010, 12:06 PM
RR does ship to Canada (according to their FAQ page), so if you decide to go with the one I mentioned before, there should be no problem with that. They also have sets of prepared slides (http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1282144138-934722&subject=11&category=3323) for several areas, including a Water Life set. A hydrometer can be purchased at pretty much any store that sells materials for home brewing beer or wine. Also, I'm not sure if they ship to Canada or not, but you may want to check out Edmund Scientific (http://scientificsonline.com/default.asp?sid=feb5astro&bhcd2=1171399586) and Home Science Tools (http://www.hometrainingtools.com/). I've purchased from both & have had no problems with either. About half the labs require some kind of aquatic organism. Each of the labs is followed by Starting Points for Student Research which lists ideas for further study of the topic covered by the lab. So, even if you skip the labs requiring organisms, she can still get a lot of info out of the course. Most materials for the labs are everyday things or easily found at most stores (sand, measuring tape, bamboo skewers, etc).

MamaB2C
08-18-2010, 01:14 PM
"The equipment needed is not extensive, although you will have to find or purchase some aquatic organisms (plankton, common bioluminescent creatures, a hydra and other more common aquatic plants and animals), a water test kit, a hydrometer, and a few other items"

Buying things like that could be a challenge.... :eek:

Nope, which is why I LOVE the Internet. Here is a prepared slide kit, for example, with some aquatic organisms Science Lab Supplies (http://www.sciencelabsupplies.com/index.cfm?sr=1&pid=908&pageset=1&d1=648&fs=ok&start=32&frm=vp) the company also carries hydrometers and such


International Shipments ( Including Canada ) :

Purchases made with Money Orders / Cashiers Checks will be shipped after payment clears.

We DO NOT accept International Credit Cards.

We are not responsible for any Customs Duties, Taxes or Fees that may be incurred. We are also not responsible for any brokerage fees which may be incurred to clear your shipment through Customs.

Shipping quotes for international orders are available upon request at [email protected]

If you live outside the U.S. please request a shipping quote prior to making a purchase so that you have the total shipping amount ahead of time.

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 01:44 PM
By "Love", I meant that the science is so flawed and the religion so pervasive that there is not a good way for someone who really wants a secular program to use Apologia.
I spent a couple of hours one day reading their samples online and I was absolutely floored by the information.

Coming to a group that identifies as being "Secular homeschoolers" and asking them about creationist science, you are going to probably get a lot of dissenting opinions.
Here is a quote from the Marine Biology class:
I want to stop here and discuss this phenomenon for a moment. The Atlantic Ocean is up to
1,000 miles wide and is believed to be a completely new ocean that formed when Pangaea broke apart.
If it always grew at its present rate, it would have taken millions of years to get to the size it is today.
However, there is no strong evidence to suggest that the rate of the ocean’s growth has been constant.
In fact, many parameters of our earth have not been constant over time, including the earth’s magnetic
field. Thus, there is no reason to believe that the plates have always moved slowly. During a
catastrophic event, the plates might have moved apart from each other very quickly. In fact, there is a
very detailed mathematical model of catastrophic plate tectonics that predicts very rapid plate
movements during the worldwide Flood that occurred in Noah’s day.

and another:

I want to point out something else that is quite amazing. There is a remarkable and vital
similarity between the chemical composition of seawater and the composition of the body fluids of
marine organisms. In other words, the body fluids of most sea creatures are very much like seawater.
Well, according to the hypothesis of evolution, the seawater in the oceans of the world has changed
substantially over time. As a result, an evolutionist would have to assume that animals adjusted their
body fluids to match their environment as the oceans of the world evolved. This is a very difficult
“model” to explain, since it requires random mutations in a very complex DNA structure to produce
any desired result in an organism’s bodily makeup. A much more reasonable explanation is that
organisms were designed to fit their environments by an intelligent Designer.
Think about it: If the evolutionist view were true, there should be many areas of the ocean
where no organism could exist, because it would take time for an organism’s DNA to alter itself to fit
the existing living conditions. In addition, there would be organisms living in environments for which
they were not yet perfectly suited, because they were in “evolutionary transition,” trying to “catch up”
with the changing ocean. We do not see either of these conditions, however. The world’s oceans are
teeming with life in every major sector, and the organisms are perfectly suited for their particular
habitats. In the end, this gives us strong evidence that life in the oceans and the oceans themselves
have not changed radically over time. They have all been designed by an almighty Creator.

For any science class that my kids have, the science needs to be based on state and national standards.
http://www.nsta.org/publications/nses.aspx

Of course I don't expect 'secular homeschoolers' to love a Christian curriculum - but I'm quite new to looking for curriculum that ISN'T faith based, as we did indeed follow that path for a few years. In a way, searching for 'secular' materials, for me, is a bit like being a brand new homeschooler again... looking around, trying to figure out what's out there, what can be used with a twist, what suppliers there are... etc etc.

I completely disagree with what the author is saying in those snippets, of course. I guess I figured if those type of things are as obvious as they seem - I mean, she stops the flow of things and might as well be holding up a sign that says "Insert Creationist Argument Here". I guess I thought maybe we could just skip the parts that she sticks in there and just stick to the facts. I'm starting to think maybe it wouldn't be that simple.....






Here is what a search of Curriki revealed:
http://www.curriki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Search/#o%3As%3Ds%253Aresource%5Ef%3Do%253Aresource%253Do %25253Aterms%25253Ds%2525253Amarine%25252520biolog y%25255Esubjectparent%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Esubje ct%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Ecategory%25253Ds%2525253 A%25255Elevel%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Elanguage%2525 3Ds%2525253A%25255Ereview%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Ei ctprfx%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Eict%25253Ds%2525253A %25255Especial%25253Ds%2525253A%255Egroup%253Do%25 253Asubjectparent%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Esubject%2 5253Ds%2525253A%25255Elevel%25253Ds%2525253A%25255 Elanguage%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Epolicy%25253Ds%25 25253A%255Emember%253Do%25253Asubjectparent%25253D s%2525253A%25255Esubject%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Eme mber_type%25253Ds%2525253A%25255Ecountry%25253Ds%2 525253A%255Ecurriki%253Do%25253A%5Ep%3Do%253Aresou rce%253Do%25253Ac%25253Dn%2525253A0%25255Es%25253D n%2525253A25%255Egroup%253Do%25253Ac%25253Dn%25252 53A0%25255Es%25253Dn%2525253A25%255Emember%253Do%2 5253Ac%25253Dn%2525253A0%25255Es%25253Dn%2525253A2 5%255Ecurriki%253Do%25253Ac%25253Dn%2525253A0%2525 5Es%25253Dn%2525253A25%5Et%3Ds%253Asearch-resource-tab%5Ea%3Do%253A

This was the first hit on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Biology-Peter-Castro/dp/0073524166/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282141523&sr=8-1

Here is a site with lesson plans and links about oceans and marine biology:
http://web.vims.edu/bridge/lesson.html?svr=www

Here is a link to National Geographic's results:
http://www.thinkfinity.org/partner-search?start=0&partner=4&partner_value=no&from_links=&txtKeyWord=ocean&txtKeyWord2=&narrow=1&chkPartner[]=Xpeditions

We used a unit from MBTP last year:
http://www.movingbeyondthepage.com/purchase9to11.asp?displayItems=true
Sonlight is a little different imo than Apologia. Sonlight uses a lot of secular books and literature and interjects religion into it in other ways. I do think it is moderately doable to use Sonlight as a secular homeschooler. (I would not use it though.)


Thanks for the links! I'll definitely follow those up this afternoon and see where they lead. :cool:

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 02:06 PM
Anything Apologia is forbidden in our school room! They have a young-earth, creationist/intelligent design, religious, Jesus baked agenda, they don't teach real science. They may have splatterings of it here and there peppered in with their well crafted lies to masquerade as real science. Keep away, far away from Apologia!

Look for another curriculum, here's a good starting point that may even be used as a curriculum depending upon your and your daughter's style: http://www.squidoo.com/oceans_and_marine_biology

Hmmm, so tell me how you really feel about their stuff... LOL

Thanks for the link, will be checking it out shortly! :D

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 02:11 PM
RR does ship to Canada (according to their FAQ page), so if you decide to go with the one I mentioned before, there should be no problem with that. They also have sets of prepared slides (http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1282144138-934722&subject=11&category=3323) for several areas, including a Water Life set. A hydrometer can be purchased at pretty much any store that sells materials for home brewing beer or wine. Also, I'm not sure if they ship to Canada or not, but you may want to check out Edmund Scientific (http://scientificsonline.com/default.asp?sid=feb5astro&bhcd2=1171399586) and Home Science Tools (http://www.hometrainingtools.com/). I've purchased from both & have had no problems with either. About half the labs require some kind of aquatic organism. Each of the labs is followed by Starting Points for Student Research which lists ideas for further study of the topic covered by the lab. So, even if you skip the labs requiring organisms, she can still get a lot of info out of the course. Most materials for the labs are everyday things or easily found at most stores (sand, measuring tape, bamboo skewers, etc).

By the time I get done sorting out curriculum, I may very well be looking for brewing supplies. :p

I did actually find that very same program on amazon.ca (the Canadian version) - but it's not sold by amazon.. it's a private seller... I don't know how that works - I've bought a few dvd sets & a few books off amazon.ca, but it was never a private seller. Know what I mean? It was amazon itself...

I'm gonna prowl that RR site - fairly sure I've heard people speak well of it before...thanks for the links to the others, I'll check them out as well! :cool:

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 02:16 PM
Nope, which is why I LOVE the Internet. Here is a prepared slide kit, for example, with some aquatic organisms Science Lab Supplies (http://www.sciencelabsupplies.com/index.cfm?sr=1&pid=908&pageset=1&d1=648&fs=ok&start=32&frm=vp) the company also carries hydrometers and such

Hmmm... I'm gonna do some more googling and see if I can find a science-specific type store like that in Canada. See the bit in your quote about customs/duty/brokerage fees? That sometimes proves very expensive for us when we order via the states, or so I've heard. But you and others have sent me thinking outside of 'homeschool curriculum' and into 'science supply store' type stuff, so that's a good thing. I'll do some hunting...:)

MamaB2C
08-18-2010, 02:17 PM
Private sellers on Amazon have to meet guidelines set by Amazon and here in the US Amazon acts as a liaison if needed. I use them all the time, because a gently used book may be so much cheaper than a new one.


But you and others have sent me thinking outside of 'homeschool curriculum' and into 'science supply store' type stuff, so that's a good thing. I'll do some hunting.

LOL, I very rarely search for homeschool specific materials because I find it too limiting.

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Private sellers on Amazon have to meet guidelines set by Amazon and here in the US Amazon acts as a liaison if needed. I use them all the time, because a gently used book may be so much cheaper than a new one.
LOL, I very rarely search for homeschool specific materials because I find it too limiting.

Good to know - I'd suspect that the .ca branch would operate the same way; I'd be more trusting of it if it does. :)

MamaB2C
08-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Just for fun, because it's one of my fave aspects of science, finding connections between things

Killer Whale fin
http://www.marinebio.net/marinescience/05nekton/KWimg/5139fin.jpg

Dolphin fin
http://www.boneclones.com/images/ko-233-lg.jpg

Seal flipper
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/947/10000526.JPG

farrarwilliams
08-18-2010, 09:40 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2010/03/06/top_home_school_texts_dismiss_darwin_evolution/

Not a revelation or anything for any of us. I feel like around the same time as I read that article there was another thing - a report or something where someone was basically saying the same thing. But I didn't find it.

Gwenhwyfar
08-18-2010, 10:59 PM
Just for fun, because it's one of my fave aspects of science, finding connections between things

Killer Whale fin
http://www.marinebio.net/marinescience/05nekton/KWimg/5139fin.jpg

Dolphin fin
http://www.boneclones.com/images/ko-233-lg.jpg

Seal flipper
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/947/10000526.JPG

Oh wow! That's amazing... they really do resemble hands! :cool:


http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2010/03/06/top_home_school_texts_dismiss_darwin_evolution/

Not a revelation or anything for any of us. I feel like around the same time as I read that article there was another thing - a report or something where someone was basically saying the same thing. But I didn't find it.

Ahhh. Thanks for the link!

...and wow... from the BJU program that they mentioned...

The textbook delivers a religious ultimatum to young readers and parents, warning in its "History of Life" chapter that a "Christian worldview ... is the only correct view of reality; anyone who rejects it will not only fail to reach heaven but also fail to see the world as it truly is."

When the AP asked about that passage, university spokesman Brian Scoles said the sentence made it into the book because of an editing error and will be removed from future editions.

that's quite the "editing error".

I did google the "Calvert" mentioned as "scientifically credible", but they appear to only go up to 8th grade, and it's something that you enroll in, rather than being able to buy specific books/etc individually.

Teri
08-18-2010, 11:13 PM
You can buy Calvert without enrolling in the school. It's very pricey though.

Teri
08-18-2010, 11:15 PM
Here is a list of secular or neutral curriculum for science (from another group):
Ellen McHenry's Chemistry and Neurology Curriculums Full Curricula (for sale)
Krampf Science Welcome to The Happy Scientist | thehappyscientist.com
Elemental Science. Lesson plans for books recommended in the WTM. Home
Delta Science (Science in a Nutshell Kits)Delta Education Science In a Nutshell Hands-On Science Kits For Classroom, Homeschool, Child Care Centers, After School Programs
GEMS Put out by University of Berkley. Neat individual units in both math and science. LHS GEMS Home
TOPs Learning Systems TOPS Learning Systems
Living Learning Books Living Learning Books
R.E.A.L Science Classical Home Education...Diverse Resources for Classical Education
Science in a Nutshell Kits Delta Education Science In a Nutshell Hands-On Science Kits For Classroom, Homeschool, Child Care Centers, After School Programs.
Live Education Waldorf Homeschooling - Waldorf home school curriculum
Real Science 4 Kids http://gravitaspublications.com/defa...blications.com
Great Science Adventures Great Science Adventures
Singapore Science Singapore Math, Singapore Science, Singapore Bookstore, Singapore English, Singapore Education, Singapore Maths, Singapore Mathematics, GCE A level and GCE O level, Tiger Balm
Exploration Education Exploration Education Science Curriculum
Sam's Science Adventures Home School Science Kits PreK-HS
The Young Scientists Club (kits) The Young Scientists Club Science Experiments and Kits for Kids
Bite-Size Physics Bite-Size Physics: A fun, hands-on physics curriculum
McWizKid Science McWizKid Science


The links didn't copy over. Bummer.

Here is a link to the board that I got it from.
http://www.amitymama.com/vb/alternative-learning/277851-i-thought-i-would-put-together-list-neutral-secular-curriculums.html

Gwenhwyfar
08-19-2010, 12:31 AM
You can buy Calvert without enrolling in the school. It's very pricey though.

Ah okay - it didn't look like you could, but good to know, thx.


Here is a list of secular or neutral curriculum for science (from another group):
Ellen McHenry's Chemistry and Neurology Curriculums Full Curricula (for sale)
Krampf Science Welcome to The Happy Scientist | thehappyscientist.com
Elemental Science. Lesson plans for books recommended in the WTM. Home
Delta Science (Science in a Nutshell Kits)Delta Education Science In a Nutshell Hands-On Science Kits For Classroom, Homeschool, Child Care Centers, After School Programs
GEMS Put out by University of Berkley. Neat individual units in both math and science. LHS GEMS Home
TOPs Learning Systems TOPS Learning Systems
Living Learning Books Living Learning Books
R.E.A.L Science Classical Home Education...Diverse Resources for Classical Education
Science in a Nutshell Kits Delta Education Science In a Nutshell Hands-On Science Kits For Classroom, Homeschool, Child Care Centers, After School Programs.
Live Education Waldorf Homeschooling - Waldorf home school curriculum
Real Science 4 Kids http://gravitaspublications.com/defa...blications.com
Great Science Adventures Great Science Adventures
Singapore Science Singapore Math, Singapore Science, Singapore Bookstore, Singapore English, Singapore Education, Singapore Maths, Singapore Mathematics, GCE A level and GCE O level, Tiger Balm
Exploration Education Exploration Education Science Curriculum
Sam's Science Adventures Home School Science Kits PreK-HS
The Young Scientists Club (kits) The Young Scientists Club Science Experiments and Kits for Kids
Bite-Size Physics Bite-Size Physics: A fun, hands-on physics curriculum
McWizKid Science McWizKid Science


The links didn't copy over. Bummer.

Here is a link to the board that I got it from.
http://www.amitymama.com/vb/alternative-learning/277851-i-thought-i-would-put-together-list-neutral-secular-curriculums.html

Wow! Thx for those, great list! :D - no worries on links, they can be googled easily enough. (Ha, you'd think spell check would agree that 'googled' is a word by now)

farrarwilliams
08-19-2010, 11:29 AM
Since there have been all these Apologia threads... I saw something on another board about how apparently the author of a bunch of their materials has actually left the company over some sort of dispute over which specific biblical interpretations are okay (or some such disagreement of different sects)... apparently the company has become so restrictive in their attitude that even their most touted, hardcore young earth creationist scientist thinks they're too narrow minded.

I'm shaking my head in sadness that this is the "best" homeschool science has to offer.