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woodsymama
08-16-2010, 04:38 PM
Has anyone used this textbook? I am wondering how religious it is, my dd has the opp to particpate in a nice co-op and meet some friends, this is the sci class they offer - we are not Christian. She is ok with being with a "religious" hs group but I dont think she'd be comfortable if the lessons were completely about Creation Science, or discuss evolution theories, scientific dates etc.
:confused:

Thanks

MamaB2C
08-16-2010, 05:49 PM
As far as I am aware, Apologia starts with creationism as it's base, so all their science is inherently religious. It's also anti-climate change/anti-environmental movement, so I am not sure how you feel about that

From Apologia's website

The text discusses such topics as the atmosphere, the hydrosphere, weather, the structure of the earth, environmentalism, the physics of motion, Newton’s Laws, gravity, and astrophysics. The author especially concentrates on the myths generated by the hysterical environmentalist movement. There are many hands-on experiments to do, and they all use household chemicals and supplies. It is an excellent course for preparing the student to take a college-prep high school science curriculum.

by publishing excellent, easy-to-use creation-based science curriculum. In recent history, we have expanded our efforts to include new books and curriculum through Apologia Press, online courses through Apologia Academy, networking and encouragement through Apologia World, and ministering to moms at Apologia Live conferences.

farrarwilliams
08-16-2010, 08:15 PM
I think at one point I would have been like, hey, it's not like it's biology and if she's excited to do it and you feel okay with the parents and any extra Christian content (like a prayer at the start or something) then sure! But after having read this Secular Thursday post from Smrt Lernins (seriously, this post haunts me it was so disturbing) I don't think I could trust any Christian science curriculum for anything ever. EVER.

http://smrtlernins.com/2010/07/01/secular-thursday-electricity-is-a-mystery-really/

Teri
08-17-2010, 12:48 AM
Apologia is one of the MOST religious science curriculums out there, imo. You can read samples on their website. It spends the entire time "proving" how the Bible is scientifically sound.
I would not put my child in a science class with this curriculum. Actually, I wouldn't attend a co-op with a group that would USE that curriculum.

Kylie
08-17-2010, 07:29 AM
I just read the post and the comments, interesting.

I have never quite understood the whole faith over science concept and I guess I never will!

mommykicksbutt
08-18-2010, 11:54 AM
Stay away from Apologia! They have a young-earth, creationist/intelligent design, full-on Jesus agenda to indoctrinate children within any of their materials. It is not real science, they fake it to support their religious agenda. Sure there may be some science facts in their books but only those that do not counter their believes (young earth, creationist, etc...). They ignore the facts that counter their beliefs and they make the rest of it up stemming from their religious beliefs, they just make is sound scientific. Their pages make good starter for a BBQ charcoal fire though. Stay away, far away from Apologia.

StartingOver
08-18-2010, 01:11 PM
There is nothing out there like Apologia that is secular. I waited for many years the first time around, for some one, anyone to design anything close for us. It still hasn't happened.

Having said that, I am still waiting. I could not stomach Apologia. A lot that I know use it as just a guide, and give Secular School Texts to their children at the highschool level. We purchased the lab sets.

farrarwilliams
08-18-2010, 02:28 PM
We're not to the high school level yet, so maybe by the time we are, there will be better materials. I feel like that's possible. But what makes Apologia's structure so good (you know, aside from all the crazy biblical young earth creationist stuff)? Is it just that they have so many offerings? Or that there are so few other choices that do science in any depth?

Teri
08-18-2010, 04:13 PM
I am wondering the same thing? I know that a lot of curriculum use the Apologia books, but I do NOT get the appeal of them at all. Besides the glaring creation based "science", it's a lot of dry textbook reading.

dottieanna29
08-18-2010, 08:15 PM
I'm nowhere near the high school level as far as homeschooling is concerned but I know that science is one area that I will not try to adapt Christian materials. There's just too many inaccuracies and too much of an agenda for me to even consider it. If there aren't better options available by that point, I will probably use regular high school or college level textbooks to build a curriculum.

MamaB2C
08-18-2010, 09:07 PM
I think the appeal of Apologia is the sheer scope and seeming completeness. They've definitely made science curriculum one stop shopping from K to Graduation....that was their goal, to ensure there was a YEC alternative to secular texts for all levels and types of sciences

StartingOver
08-18-2010, 09:39 PM
We're not to the high school level yet, so maybe by the time we are, there will be better materials. I feel like that's possible. But what makes Apologia's structure so good (you know, aside from all the crazy biblical young earth creationist stuff)? Is it just that they have so many offerings? Or that there are so few other choices that do science in any depth?


I am wondering the same thing? I know that a lot of curriculum use the Apologia books, but I do NOT get the appeal of them at all. Besides the glaring creation based "science", it's a lot of dry textbook reading.


I think the appeal of Apologia is the sheer scope and seeming completeness. They've definitely made science curriculum one stop shopping from K to Graduation....that was their goal, to ensure there was a YEC alternative to secular texts for all levels and types of sciences

I agree, Apologia if you have looked at it is very complete. Everything you need in one package, if you agree with the young earth base. It is the only thing out there that you don't have to gather a ton of equipment for. It also amazing choices, and AP classes.

You can find many good texts, but hardly any good lab books. I never found one place that had all of the supplies we needed in one nice neat box, and no one ever came close to the savings of Apologia. It is the perfect creationist science, and has been around for a very long time.

It is so good that many secular homeschoolers use it, and just deal with it. Like I said I have been waiting for 22 year for someone to do the same for us. Maybe in the next 8-9 someone will. Or at least someone can put together a decent lab package, one stop shopping. I would be happy with a company that just carried everything you need in one place. LOL

Thank goodness I don't have to stress over it for a while.

Gwenhwyfar
08-19-2010, 12:06 AM
I agree, Apologia if you have looked at it is very complete. Everything you need in one package, if you agree with the young earth base. It is the only thing out there that you don't have to gather a ton of equipment for. It also amazing choices, and AP classes.

You can find many good texts, but hardly any good lab books. I never found one place that had all of the supplies we needed in one nice neat box, and no one ever came close to the savings of Apologia. It is the perfect creationist science, and has been around for a very long time.

It is so good that many secular homeschoolers use it, and just deal with it. Like I said I have been waiting for 22 year for someone to do the same for us. Maybe in the next 8-9 someone will. Or at least someone can put together a decent lab package, one stop shopping. I would be happy with a company that just carried everything you need in one place. LOL

Thank goodness I don't have to stress over it for a while.

Exactly why I'm looking at their Marine Biology - it can all be ordered right there, one shot. It's put together, it's ready to go.. and 'easy to use' for someone who might not really have enough biology knowledge* (or organizational skills!) to put together their own program. I'm afraid that if I start ordering bits and pieces and trying to do our own thing.. I might not order the RIGHT things. The RIGHT supplies.. etc.

* but of course this also proves problematic if the YEC/anti-evolution bias is hidden some of the time and not always in a "hey, now let me tell you my opinion" type paragraph as the examples I've seen have been...I can pick that out (it's very obvious), but I mightn't pick out stuff that isn't....or stuff that is MISSING, not mentioned, etc. Like the whole bone thing in the other thread. (which is uber awesome)

Teri
08-19-2010, 12:12 AM
I just can't make that compromise. That's why we homeschool, so I don't have to settle for something that I don't buy into.
I can't buy it being that complete if it is just flat out wrong.
I would rather skip science curriculum that let my kids learn from curriculum that is just factually incorrect.

StartingOver
08-19-2010, 12:45 AM
I just can't make that compromise. That's why we homeschool, so I don't have to settle for something that I don't buy into.
I can't buy it being that complete if it is just flat out wrong.
I would rather skip science curriculum that let my kids learn from curriculum that is just factually incorrect.

This is exactly the reason my older children all did their high school science classes at the local college if they require lab !! I could not stomach Apologia, and trust me I tried !

Wilma
08-24-2010, 05:29 PM
Okay, don't throw tomatoes at me.

Compared to other Christian science books out there, Apologia is about the least condescending. Believe me. Try reading a BJU upper level science text. Apologia is much better at presenting the facts of both sides, as opposed to other publishers who seem to spend a great deal of type explaining how to evangelize the "poor evolutionsts." We have done Apologia and my dd enjoyed doing it. It was completely independent, we could buy complete experiment kits from Home Science Tools for very little money, and she could do the experiments on her own.

The creation/evolution debate is going crazy, IMO, but it is often in the headlines. If you go into the debate with one mindset, you are going to find evidence to support it, which is why I never enter the creation/evolution debate on forums. Honestly, you aren't talking science as much as you are talking worldview. It is a no win situation.

I think it is very important for the kids to know both sides of the debate. Personally, I think many evolutionists think the YEC are blind buffoons, and many YEC think the evolutionists are immoral dilettantes. Neither is correct in most cases. If things are presented in this house that we don't agree with, we do not shy away from it. We present/teach it and then and use that as a chance to explain why we don't believe it, and how to respectfully counter it with others if the opportunity allows. If you don't know the other side, it is difficult to refute specific arguments. As our children get older, it is very apparent to dh and I that they really don't own an idea unless they have been able to explore both sides, and, in many cases, really wrestle with it.

As long as you know where you stand, and you are comfortable with presenting an alternative, and you believe the co-op will accept your child and your beliefs without making you a project, I personally wouldn't see a problem.

That being said, I can't stand Apologia's elementary science.

MamaB2C
08-24-2010, 06:47 PM
We present/teach it and then and use that as a chance to explain why we don't believe it, and how to respectfully counter it with others if the opportunity allows. If you don't know the other side, it is difficult to refute specific arguments. As our children get older, it is very apparent to dh and I that they really don't own an idea unless they have been able to explore both sides, and, in many cases, really wrestle with it.

I take this approach with many things, but, to me, the word "believe" shouldn't be used when discussing science...I hold the scientific method very near and dear.

I want DS to learn how to critically examine evidence, to evaluate sources, and to draw conclusions based on thorough and sound inquiry. I just don't see critical investigation being facilitated when the source believes it has The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything, and all evidence presented is meant to support that predetermined answer.

Teri
08-24-2010, 08:08 PM
I take this approach with many things, but, to me, the word "believe" shouldn't be used when discussing science...I hold the scientific method very near and dear.

I want DS to learn how to critically examine evidence, to evaluate sources, and to draw conclusions based on thorough and sound inquiry. I just don't see critical investigation being facilitated when the source believes it has The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything, and all evidence presented is meant to support that predetermined answer.

I agree with this 100%. This isn't a belief we are talking about. This is science. I am fine with people believing in whatever they want to believe in, but I don't want it to be in a science text that we are using. I want what science considers to be real science. We can talk religion in a religion class.

mommykicksbutt
08-25-2010, 05:57 AM
I agree too. You can believe in fairy tales, you can believe in unicorns, you can believe in leprechauns, but you can't believe in gravity (or choose not to believe in gravity). Science is fact based not faith based. Faith is believing (whether or not it is fact). Science is just plain fact.